Made You Think is a podcast by Nat Eliason, Neil Soni, and Adil Majid where the hosts and their guests examine ideas that, as the name suggests, make you think. Episodes will explore books, essays, podcasts, and anything else that warrants further discussion, teaches something useful, or at the very least, exercises our brain muscles.
21 Subscribers
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Made You Think
21 Subscribers
Reviews
soichit
5 out of 5 stars
My favorite podcast!
This is my favorite podcast. No one else is doing a podcast like this where they read this many books and talk about them. They are all very knowledgeable so make lots of good connections and insights. At first, I was annoyed by the tangents. But after about 3 episodes, I started to love them!
KentChen1014
5 out of 5 stars
Love the podcast!
A great podcast! Thank you for these great contents, love it!
Louis Shulman
5 out of 5 stars
Thanks for reading hard books for me - Louis
Neil and Nat read hard books and make them easy to understand. I appreciate this! This show helps me decide which difficult books are worth taking the time to read and which I can probably succeed with just a summary of. Great hosts and great energy. Highly recommend.
Mauimobetta
5 out of 5 stars
Favorite Podcast!
This is my favorite podcast. I enjoy thinking and discussing ideas with others. Fortunately, this is what Nat and Neil do. They read and discuss books. This may sound boring to some, but I eat it up. I actually picked up the book, “Amusing Ourselves to Death” after listening to that episode and plan to read more of the books discussed. I really enjoy this podcast and hope that Nat and Neil will continue it.
RiskyRawr
4 out of 5 stars
Rediscovered after hiatus
I had downloaded the episodes on “Infinite Jest” quite a while ago and had honestly forgotten about then until the most recent update episode popped up and I’m definitely enjoying the commentary. I’m not sure if it has been suggested before for a fiction book but “House of Leaves” is a other heavy read with a ton of nuance and an excessive message board with all those details. It would be interesting to hear your take!
Mary Gladstone
5 out of 5 stars
❤️❤️❤️❤️
I love this podcast & confess to being a made you think addict. I’d like to hear your thoughts on Minds Eye by Oliver Sacks & prosopagnosia or face blindness. Along with the Cambridge test among others & well known people with face blindness such as Jane Goodall, Brad Pitt, Victoria Crown Princess of Sweden etc. Apparently there are different levels of severity & coping mechanisms. Would be an interesting subject to discuss.
INDYMADE
5 out of 5 stars
Please bring this back
Great conversations on some of the most important books of today. It’s like a private book club. Found this, sub’d and listened to everything before realizing it hadn’t been updated in a year. Bring it back!
L$9
5 out of 5 stars
<3 these guys!
Two clearly intelligent guys reviewing a bunch of books I've wanted to jump into and riding some excellent tangents. They always have poignant and thoughtful insights and seem pretty willing to call themselves out on their own bs. An excellent alternative to rogan or ferris with regards to the longform podcast. I usually listen on Spotify and never write reviews but have really been diggin these to. Keep it up yaw! ~L
Fun With Friendsss
5 out of 5 stars
New Subscriber!
Nat and Neil do a great job making these episodes fun and entertaining. Really enjoyed the Robert Greene episode and Mastery! Keep up the great work and thanks for the amazing show notes!
Chadfredlott
5 out of 5 stars
Like hanging with your two smartest bros
I just finished Infinite Jest, and like all who enjoy/suffer through it, I immediately wanted to talk about it with someone. None of my friends have made it through, so I turned to the internet. I found episode 60 & 61 of this podcast, and it was just what I was looking for; smart, informed, but not ponderously wanky and academic. Just right. I’ve listened to a few other episodes and can confirm, the rest of the show is solid too. I’m looking forward to dipping deeper into the back catalog.
Ylisten
5 out of 5 stars
You’ll Never See the World the Same
Nat and Neil discuss relevant topics based upon reliable and sometimes surprising sources. I’ve gained useful knowledge from each podcast. When I listened to ‘The Devil is in the Data: How to lie with statistics by Darrell Huff’ (episode 53) I was elated! Why? It’s a pet peeve of mine to see how easily skewed, blatant misrepresentation of statistics can be used to manipulate just about everything. Thank you Nat and Neil for putting in the time to offer reliable information to people who are interested in more than opinions. And you guys are fun to listen to.
Dmed303
5 out of 5 stars
Solid podcast
Really enjoy hearing a younger thoughtful perspective
SkyColony
5 out of 5 stars
In Deep
These young (I’m 62😳) guys are SO well read. Love their references as they discuss the material of the week. Recently reread The Fountainhead, after hearing the episode on Atlas Shrugged. Their choices for discussion are excellent...highly recommend!
Andyboi07
5 out of 5 stars
High quality
I really appreciate good craftsmanship. This podcast has it, from the descriptions of episodes that are time stamped and includes links to things discussed, to the quality of the audio, and the actual work that goes with ever episode. Keep it up!
JamesBoom93
5 out of 5 stars
The podcast for people trying to take reading more seriously.
Stop sending free samples to your Kindle, and just listen to Nat + Neil break down complex the ideas and make them 10x easier to understand. This podcast is a great tool if you want to add 40 more books to your "to read" list. Show notes are A1. The recap episodes (21, 43) are great starting points for new listeners.
aquatic_ape
5 out of 5 stars
Stimulating and impactful
Between the fun tangents, incredible subject material, and nuanced views on social and cerebral topics, the podcast will... uh... make you think!
Divamare
5 out of 5 stars
Book club for busy, thinking people
Natt and Niel have infectious personalities. They do a great job in summarizing books without spoiling them. Great content ranging from both known and unlikely thought leaders.
mpm9292
5 out of 5 stars
One of my new favorites
Really great discussion podcast. Combination of entertaining and information-sense. The right amount of structured and unstructured conversation. Really great to hear summaries and smart thoughts about the books and ideas Nat and Neil cover without having to read the entire book—or to help figure out if it’s worth the read.
The Word of Thought
5 out of 5 stars
Amazing
It is generic to say, but these guys are the highlight of my day. I have learned so much from each podcast. I am very impressed, and I appreciate how coherent the dialogue is between these two. Keep it up, guys!
Hls
5 out of 5 stars
Consistently Excellent Content
Nat and Neil continue to impress! Each episode is interesting, entertaining, and intellecually stimulating. Highly recommended.
Johnny673
5 out of 5 stars
They Always Make Me Think
I've been listening since right around when this podcast started. One thing I appreciate is how the hosts identify patterns that come up across different books and articles they discuss. A lot of the value in this podcast is the insights that come from comparing and contrasting topics from previous episodes, so I recommend you start from the beginning. Oh yeah, and the tangents are fun, too! I highly recommend this podcast (unless you're a Middlebury student).
Smailliw.retep
5 out of 5 stars
Weekly Wisdom
This is one of the best podcasts to learn from. The basic information is from great books but the tangents tie it all into your general life. The choice of books isn't obvious either, just strange enough to integrate some things you never would've read. Nate (j/k) and Neil really know their stuff!
PPierpoint
5 out of 5 stars
Love this Podcast!
I am a female listener and I look forward to this podcast every single week! Nat and Neil are hilarious, especially when they go off on tangents about the most random things that somehow still relate. I always learn new concepts in an entertaining way. My favorite is episode 12 "Intelligence, Art, Music, and Life are a Strange Loop". Go listen to it!
Hunterweir
5 out of 5 stars
Mind-Altering Stuff
This podcast and Nat in particular have greatly influenced my worldview. HIGHLY recommended and I expect it to get better as they progress
Sean1001
3 out of 5 stars
Potential
I think this has the potential to be a really good podcast. I will continue to listen, but I think it suffers some due to a lack of editing. While both of of these young podcasters can make insightful and thought provoking observations, in equal measure, they also have a strong tendency to go on unrelated tangents. They also both have unfortunate millennial tendency to finish many of their sentences by vocal frying their words. This is more common to women (e.g. Kardashians), but they seem to have taken this characteristic on (one more then the other). Other millenials probably won't notice...
cs31415
5 out of 5 stars
First Rate
Neil and Nat are some of the deepest thinkers I have encountered in the podcast world. Truly comparable to Tim Ferriss and Shane Parrish in terms of quality and range of thought, selection of topics and wit. I have absolutely enjoyed every episode and look forward to many more.
emw1023
5 out of 5 stars
Excellent Podcast
I really enjoy Made You Think because Neil and Nat are able to take complex ideas and break them down into simpler, actionable insights. Even if I've already read the book, I still listen because they often bring up fascinating points that I hadn't even considered.
TonyUbo
5 out of 5 stars
perfect title, great podcast
This podcast has quickly become the podcast I most look forward to downloading each week. Think of the show as book club with incredibly thoughtful and interesting friends. Nat and Neil are type of guys you’d be glad to just sit and listen to as they share perspective and experiences. What’s great is they could seemingly talk about anything but they use the structure of the book to provide guardrails for the conversation. Also, for those looking to get a taste of a book before committing, the audiobook for Anti-Fragile is 12 hours long. Their Anti-Fragile podcast episode is 100 minutes. Just saying.
NicaBD1980
5 out of 5 stars
Excellent thought provoking podcast
For me these guys are up there with Tim Ferriss in terms of their ability to host wide ranging and fascinating conversations that I would not have otherwise stumbled across. Love this and look forward to many more episodes!
podcastaddict404
5 out of 5 stars
Excellent show for those that enjoy deep learning
As someone who likes going deep into a subject, I'm enjoying Made You Think. The side stories and anecdotes shared by the hosts serve to make the show even more informative and entertaining than it would be. Subscribed and looking forward to more episodes!
DavidCBaker
5 out of 5 stars
Nat/Neil Team Are Terrific
I've been reading Nat's email missives for quite a bit, and always find them to be mentally invigorating. This podcast (like my 2bobs podcast with Blair Enns) is a conversation between two friends, and the back and forth works well. Really excited to have this on the market.
Podcast information
- Amount of episodes
- 91
- Subscribers
- 21
- Verified
- No
- Website
- Explicit content
- No
- Episode type
- episodic
- Podcast link
- https://podvine.com/link/..
- Last upload date
- March 20, 2023
- Last fetch date
- March 21, 2023 8:03 PM
- Upload range
- MONTHLY
- Author
- Neil Soni, Nat Eliason, and Adil Majid
- Copyright
susbcribers
- 91: Digital Immortality: Permutation City“Opponents replied that when you modeled a hurricane, nobody got wet. When you modeled a fusion power plant, no energy was produced. When you modeled digestion and metabolism, no nutrients were consumed – no real digestion took place. So, when you modeled the human brain, why should you expect real thought to occur?” Welcome back to another episode of Made You Think! In this episode, we're talking all things consciousness and simulated reality with Permutation City by Greg Egan. Classified as a hard science fiction novel, the book tells the story of a man who seeks to create immortality by creating "software" copies of the mind. We cover a wide range of topics including: The complex nature of consciousness Egan's "Dust Theory" What it's like to live in a simulation Ethics surrounding death and dying The possibilities that come with computer intelligence And much more. Please enjoy, and make sure to follow Nat , Neil , and Adil on Twitter and share your thoughts on the episode. Links from the Episode: Mentioned in the Show: The Dust Theory (3:51) Biocentrism (7:37) Black Mirror - San Junipero (30:48) Turing test (35:52) Her (39:08) Building a Second Brain (1:07:05) The Expanse (1:08:08) Books Mentioned: Godel Escher Bach (0:42) ( Nat’s Book Notes) The Three-Body Problem (0:58) ( Nat’s Book Notes) The Beginning of Infinity (16:42) ( Nat’s Book Notes) The Egg (19:27) The Fable of the Dragon Tyrant (24:26) The Structure of Scientific Revolutions (26:58) Where Is my Flying Car? (27:13) The Comfort Crisis (30:20) Homo Deus (44:41) ( Nat's Book Notes) Altered Carbon (53:41) The Lessons of History (1:02:26) People Mentioned: Greg Egan (3:54) Arthur Clarke (16:39) Issac Asimov (16:40) Andy Weir (19:28) Liu Cixin (1:04:31) Show Topics: (0:00) If you're a science fiction lover, this week's episode is for you! We’re discussing Permutation City, a 'hard science fiction' book from 1994. This book explores many concepts including The Dust Theory and achieving immortality through copying your consciousness. (4:24) Intro to Dust Theory. There are infinitely many universes existing at all space and time. As soon as a universe is perceived by a conscious intelligence, that universe comes to exist, and that universe will always continue to exist as long as there is consciousness to observe it. (8:11) Are we in a simulation? We learn in response to stimuli which is also how LLMs (large language models) learn too. (13:12) Nat, Neil, and Adil define consciousness, discuss the idea of transporting consciousness, and how we differ from LLMs. We have a private and inner mind that generates its own thoughts and feelings. We can't be certain whether computers have this or not. (22:01) There's an 'engine' in our heads that is focused on our survival and continuation. (23:21) Ethics surrounding death. One can argue that life is short, but when you've lived for thousands of years through copying your consciousness, it becomes a question of when it's enough. (28:39) If we could somehow prevent bodily decay and the death of our loved ones, would we ever be ready to die, and is aging something that we can slow down or affect? (33:43) In the book, from the perspective of the humans, the copies are just programs who look intelligent, but they aren’t real. From the perspective of the copies, it’s all very real. (41:31) Time dilation and running consciousness slower for the copies. The slowdown doesn’t necessarily affect the copy. The time perception is still the same to them, but it may affect how they interact with the real world. (46:08) There's a baseline risk for being alive. You can try to get all of your life risks to zero, but it is best to accept that there will always be some general risk. (51:49) Collaboration in publishing. While most books have a single author, it may add some dimension to get expertise from guest authors with knowledge in different fields. (54:50) What did Greg Egan regret most about Permutation City? (1:02:11) That concludes this episode! Stay tuned for our next episode on History of the Peloponnesian War. Also on the horizon is The Three-Body Problem. Make sure to pick up a copy if you'd like to read up before the episode! If you enjoyed this episode, let us know by leaving a review on iTunes and tell a friend. As always, let us know if you have any book recommendations! You can say hi to us on Twitter @TheRealNeilS, @adilmajid, @nateliason and share your thoughts on this episode. You can now support Made You Think using the Value-for-Value feature of Podcasting 2.0. This means you can directly tip the co-hosts in BTC with minimal transaction fees. To get started, simply download a podcast app (like Fountain or Breez) that supports Value-for-Value and send some BTC to your in-app wallet. You can then use that to support shows who have opted-in, including Made You Think! We’ll be going with this direct support model moving forward, rather than ads. Thanks for listening. See you next time!0 comments0
- 90: It Is a Possibility: Where’s My Flying Car?“In today’s world, even a non-Stagnated version, the flying car is not a replacement for the car; it is a replacement for the airplane. A reasonably well-designed convertible could fit right in to today’s airspace system; it would fit right into our road system as well. Without the Stagnation there might well be a 50,000 airplane per year market, and enough licensed pilots to buy them. Remember, average family income would be well into six figures. In 1950, about one quarter of one percent of Americans were licensed pilots; that percentage today amounts to over three quarters of a million, which is market aplenty, for a start.” Welcome back to another episode of Made You Think! In this episode, we discuss Where Is My Flying Car? by J. Storrs Hall who calls out the stagnation of productivity since the 1970s and gives us a glimpse of what our future could be if we strive for it. We cover a wide range of topics including: Why growth has slowed since the 1970s What's possible with nuclear energy and nanotech? The zero sum way of thinking How our tolerance for risk has changed over time The progression of aviation from the early 1900s to now And much more. Please enjoy, and make sure to follow Nat , Neil , and Adil on Twitter and share your thoughts on the episode. Links from the Episode: Mentioned in the Show: Kardashev scale (35:02) Israel’s Iron Dome (44:40) AVE Mizar - Flying car prototype (47:46) Joby Aviation (54:04) Osprey military helicopter (55:07) Tesla plunges off a cliff (1:01:17) Interstellar (1:19:59) Space elevator (1:25:37) Popular Mechanics (1:26:51) Books Mentioned: The Three-Body Problem (9:55) ( Nat's Book Notes) Dune (10:33) Foundation (10:34) Zero to One (13:57) ( Nat's Book Notes) The Comfort Crisis (14:18) ( Book Episode) Energy and Civilization (33:59) ( Book Episode) ( Nat's Book Notes) Titan: The Life of John D. Rockefeller, Sr. (37:22) Project Hail Mary (56:52) The Martian (56:55) ( Nat's Book Notes) The Time Machine (1:07:14) The Fourth Turning (1:14:19) ( Book Episode) The Art of Doing Science and Engineering (1:32:19) The Making of the Prince of Persia (1:32:40) The Dream Machine (1:33:51) Scientific Freedom (1:34:02) People Mentioned: Dan Carlin (0:56) Vaclav Smil (33:57) Ron Chernow (37:23) Andy Weir (56:53) David Foster Wallace (1:06:25) Paul Graham (1:29:58) Show Topics: (0:36) Podcast analytics: What are the listening behaviors and demographics of our listeners? (4:35) The explanation behind the spy balloons and other UFOs. (9:52) Nat, Neil, and Adil talk about some book recommendations they’ve received and books they’d recommend to others. (11:56) One takeaway from the book is that we don’t tend to work on things that feel impossible. Much of what we've accomplished is what feels safe and what we know we’ll see success in. (17:42) The book we're discussing today is Where Is My Flying Car? The book talks about the stagnation of the physical world because we didn’t invest as much as we could have in nuclear energy, nanotech, and aviation. (22:14) Some of the different technologies that have been idealized feel fictional and out of reach. However, we're much further than we know in understanding the technical part of it and these ideas may not be all that unattainable. (26:44) Early on, the book emphasizes the flying car, then goes to explain that you can’t get the flying car without better energy policies and nanotech. (30:05) The cost efficiency of nuclear fuel. (32:03) The Henry Adams curve. How do we make the shift from creating more energy to using the energy more efficiently? The amount of energy your civilization harnesses is indicative of your wealth and quality of living. (35:39) The ‘zero sum’ way of thinking and how it impacts moral behavior. If you don’t have economic growth, you can’t sustain democracy in the long run. (38:09) What would good regulation look like? How the atomic bomb changed the progress and power of countries. (44:45) Climate change and the argument of CO2 as an enemy. If CO2 did increase, it would be beneficial to plants but harmful to humans. (46:55) Aviation from the 30’s and 40’s and the stagnation over the past few decades in air travel. While we made progress after the first aircraft was made and through WW1 and WW2, the progress since is seemingly slow. (52:23) The distinction between leading edge vs. depth and the importance of computing progress in space travel. (58:29) Before the era of computing, many things were controlled by pumps and levers. Our risk tolerance is much different than it once was. (1:04:40) We have different ideas of what risk is now. We still have the instinct to make progress in society, but it has been redirected towards other things. (1:11:16) The 5 levels of transportation and how your wealth determines your level. There are millions of people who can't afford shoes, yet people in higher socioeconomic classes can afford cars. Both are vehicles for transportation. (1:16:42) What will good tech look like in 50 years? We’ve progressed in telecommunication with audio, video, tv, podcasts, instant messaging, etc. A lot of science fiction is pessimistic about humanity. (1:22:48) Nanotech and the capabilities you can achieve with it. (1:30:58) Have you ever read a book and wished it was longer or shorter? (1:42:02) That concludes this episode! Next up, we're reading Peloponnesian War and will get to The Three-Body Problem trilogy down the road. Make sure to pick up a copy if you want to follow along with us! If you enjoyed this episode, let us know by leaving a review on iTunes and tell a friend. As always, let us know if you have any book recommendations! You can say hi to us on Twitter @TheRealNeilS, @adilmajid, @nateliason and share your thoughts on this episode. You can now support Made You Think using the Value-for-Value feature of Podcasting 2.0. This means you can directly tip the co-hosts in BTC with minimal transaction fees. To get started, simply download a podcast app (like Fountain or Breez) that supports Value-for-Value and send some BTC to your in-app wallet. You can then use that to support shows who have opted-in, including Made You Think! We’ll be going with this direct support model moving forward, rather than ads. Thanks for listening. See you next time!0 comments0
- Made You Think Feb 13 · 1h 20m 89: The Art of War by Sun Tzu“The art of war is of vital importance to the State. It is a matter of life and death, a road either to safety or to ruin. Hence it is a subject of inquiry which can on no account be neglected.” Welcome back to another episode of Made You Think! In this episode, we're covering The Art of War by Sun Tzu. Though it's nearly 2,500 years old, the military tactics and war strategies presented in the book are still being taught in militaries and business schools around the world making this a timeless strategy guide. We cover a wide range of topics including: How perfecting the basics can earn you the win Strategies for being the superior or inferior force The five essentials for victory Using deception on your enemy When you should use an indirect approach or avoid conflict And much more. Please enjoy, and make sure to follow Nat , Neil , and Adil on Twitter and share your thoughts on the episode. Links from the Episode: Mentioned in the Show: Donald Trump's NFT commercial (3:38) Then and now: Uneven bars (27:45) Jocko Podcast 23: The Art of War (29:07) ChatGPT (1:02:33) Did the Greeks see blue? (1:03:03) Books Mentioned: Tao Te Ching (7:49) ( Book Episode) ( Nat's Book Notes) Atomic Habits (9:30) ( Nat's Book Notes) The Prince (20:37) Unrestricted Warfare (1:09:27) Where Is My Flying Car? (1:10:35) People Mentioned: Sun Tzu Colleen Hoover (9:33) Sun Bin (10:24) Lorenzo de' Medici (21:07) Show Topics: (4:02) Today, we are diving back in to our Great Book Series with The Art of War, a book on military strategy and warfare, but the lessons can be applied to fields outside of war, too. (7:36) The book is approximately 2,500 years old. Though Sun Tzu is credited as the author, it's unclear how much of it was his direct writing vs. a compilation of his strategies that are attributed to him. (13:43) One main takeaway from the book is that it really all comes down to the basics and the intuition you get from your experience. (17:48) The commentary in the book suggests that the book wasn’t written for a military audience, but rather for the King at the time. It may not dive into the actual act of fighting, training, and equipping a military, but it does cover leadership, deception, and strategization. (22:12)"To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." The enemy can present you the opportunity to win by making a mistake. This can apply in areas outside of war, such as sports. (28:09) Much of the book talks about avoiding war and taking an indirect approach. You can’t change someone’s mind with a direct approach, but you can apply other tactics and more indirect measures to convince someone or change their minds. (32:47) Nat, Neil, and Adil go over the 5 essentials for victory as well as the importance of the commander’s intent. (35:02) Superior vs. inferior forces and knowing how to handle them. You can turn a superior force into an inferior force by splitting them up and spreading them thin. (38:51) When attacking a weaker force, never corner them. Leaving the enemy an escape lets the less motivated soldiers to leave through the escape route rather than fighting it out. (40:41) The 9 grounds - The book lays out strategies for each of the types of ground. They are helpful for the generals to have a list of possible next steps depending on the situation at hand. (44:57) The basics may appear so simple and common sense, but it’s all about which side can do the basics correctly. By remembering the basics, we aren't forced to try to do too much which is when we end up making an error allowing the other side to capitalize on it. (51:54) Once you have expertise in something, you often notice things that others with just basic knowledge wouldn’t. We talk about why it can also be harder to teach a beginner when you're an expert. (57:28) Rapid fire: Nat, Neil, and Adil cover a few of their remaining notes from the book including the 5 dangerous faults that may affect a general. (1:09:23) The basics of war can be combined and recombined. It's similar to playing cards where two people may play the same hand completely differently and apply different strategies. (1:10:28) That concludes this episode! Up next, we will be reading Where Is My Flying Car? by J. Storrs Hall. Make sure to pick up a copy if you want to read along with us! If you enjoyed this episode, let us know by leaving a review on iTunes and tell a friend. As always, let us know if you have any book recommendations! You can say hi to us on Twitter @TheRealNeilS , @adilmajid , @nateliason and share your thoughts on this episode. You can now support Made You Think using the Value-for-Value feature of Podcasting 2.0. This means you can directly tip the co-hosts in BTC with minimal transaction fees. To get started, simply download a podcast app (like Fountain or Breez) that supports Value-for-Value and send some BTC to your in-app wallet. You can then use that to support shows who have opted-in, including Made You Think! We’ll be going with this direct support model moving forward, rather than ads. Thanks for listening. See you next time!0 comments0
- 88: The Mind-Body Connection: How The Body Keeps The Score“Neuroscience research shows that the only way we can change the way we feel is by becoming aware of our inner experience and learning to befriend what is going inside ourselves.” Welcome back to another episode of Made You Think! In this episode, we discuss The Body Keeps The Score by Bessel van der Kolk, and the effects that traumatic stress can have on our mind and body. We cover a wide range of topics including: Why the mind and body should not be viewed as unrelated entities The role of both parents in raising a well-adjusted child Breathwork, meditation, and starting early How movement and exercise can rewire your brain The rise of therapy and importance of social support And much more. Please enjoy, and make sure to follow Nat , Neil , and Adil on Twitter and share your thoughts on the episode. Links from the Episode: Mentioned in the Show: Agamemnon (1:11) Shiva (27:55) 40th Day after death (28:09) Bonobos (43:30) EMDR (1:00:14) Wim Hof Breathing (1:03:08) Books Mentioned The Body Keeps the Score Merchants of Doubt (3:09) ( Nat's Book Notes) ( Book Episode) Gödel, Escher, Bach (6:17) ( Nat's Book Notes) ( Book Episode) Burn Rate (43:22) Breath (1:01:58) ( Nat's Book Notes) Deep (1:02:07) The Art of War (1:08:32) People Mentioned Andy Dunn (43:20) Eric Jorgensen (54:23) ( Book Episode) James Nestor (1:02:01) Show Topics: (0:00) The Body Keeps The Score seeks to change the discourse around trauma and its symptoms, and it pokes some holes in the way that people have historically thought about mental health. (3:28) The way we think about our bodily health was traditionally very individualistic, when in reality, it’s very complex. The brain and body connection: They’re not two totally different things, rather they’re deeply connected. (8:09) In addition to the mental and emotional affects of anxiety, there are physical effects too: stomach aches, shortness of breath, muscle tension, and more. We also talk about the importance of gut health. (12:10) Fermentation of beer and sourdough, and the differences when it's fermented commercially vs. at-home. (17:07) A lot of what we consume may have been fermented at least partially in the past, but that's not the case with most foods anymore. Our bodies have evolved to it, and it likely has an impact on our gut health. (19:58) PTSD with veterans and why they could be in one world mentally but another world physically. (25:49) Handling difficult experiences with social support vs. isolation. If you grew up without a positive parental figure, you may try to find that support somewhere else, even if that support is negative such as joining a gang. (27:11) The rise of therapy. Traditionally, people would use their social or religious communities as the support to confide in and get them through difficult times. Today, there's more individualized support from someone that you previously did not know. (31:30) You don’t process trauma the same way you process language, so talking about these traumatic events can become difficult. There’s a difference between going to therapy and actually doing the work at therapy. (36:00) The book highlights many stories of people where events experienced early on in life are still unresolved for many years into their adulthood. It can take decades to identify where some of our behaviors and thoughts stem from. (39:54) Imprinting your child. Not everyone is aware of bad habits they show in their parenting style that came from their own parents. It's all about reflecting on how you want to do things differently than your parents as a parent yourself. (45:49) The author argues that it’s hard to have an emotionally well adjusted child without both a male and female role model that embodies some of the stereotypical traits for the child. (56:13) Movement and exercise can rewire your brain and change how you feel about something. It also takes us back to the mind-body connection where you're more likely to feel emotionally better if you physically feel well, too. (58:32) Nat and Neil share their advice on reading the book and how the stories within the book can be helpful, but at the same time, difficult to read. (1:01:51) The benefits of breathwork and meditation, and how you can teach those skills very early on in life. (1:07:59) That wraps up this episode! Join us next time as we cover The Art of War by Sun Tzu. If you enjoyed this episode, let us know by leaving a review on iTunes and tell a friend. As always, let us know if you have any book recommendations! You can say hi to us on Twitter @TheRealNeilS, @adilmajid, @nateliason and share your thoughts on this episode. You can now support Made You Think using the Value-for-Value feature of Podcasting 2.0. This means you can directly tip the co-hosts in BTC with minimal transaction fees. To get started, simply download a podcast app (like Fountain or Breez) that supports Value-for-Value and send some BTC to your in-app wallet. You can then use that to support shows who have opted-in, including Made You Think! We’ll be going with this direct support model moving forward, rather than ads. Thanks for listening. See you next time!0 comments0
- 87: Lessons from The Master: The Analects of ConfuciusWelcome back to another episode of Made You Think! In this episode we discuss The Analects of Confucius and virtuous living. We cover a wide range of topics including: Confucian virtues The differences between Confucianism and Taoism The value of friendships between the young and their elders How to govern through example in a Confucian way Transmitting the values of ancients to contemporary times Ancient Chinese religions And much more. Please enjoy, and make sure to follow Nat , Neil , and Adil on Twitter and share your thoughts on the episode. Mentioned in the show: Desnudo Coffee in Austin Johnathan Bi and David Perell's Girard Lecture series link Hardcore History: Wrath of the Khans Hardcore History: The Death Throes of the Republic Ancient Chinese religions Dolphin birthing center TikTok Books mentioned: The Clouds by Aristophanes Falling Upward by Richard Rohr People mentioned: Rumi (24:35) Richard Rohr (48:26) Johnathan Bi and David Perell (54:00) Graham Hancock (1:14:51) Show Topics: (0:00) Feedback about the Made You Think title – time for a possible rebrand? (1:44) Tangent Fuel Coffee and Desnudo Coffee in Austin (8:18) TikTok SEO's early days and Nat's experience on BookTok (12:40) About Confucius (15:45) Socrates, Confucius, and Buddha lived in the same 100 years (18:12) Confucianism vs. Taoism (20:28) The meaning of Books 10 and 18 in Analects (23:20) Confucianism vs. Stoicism (24:35) Confucius or Rumi? Adil reads quotes from each and Nat and Neil guess the author (31:34) The Golden Rule appearing in Analects - twice! (33:54): How to retain an author's original meaning while translating their work, especially when translating poetry or religious texts (36:35) How The Clouds by Aristophanes contirbuted to Socrates’ death (38:00) The meaning of filial piety and how Confucius prescribes mourning for one’s parents (42:03) How our society is stratified by age and the difficulties in making friends with people much older (48:26) Falling Upward by Richard Rohr (52:20) The narcissism of small differences and Girard (54:55) Governing through virtue and example (59:15) Genghis Khan breaking up groups with homogenous sets of beliefs – TK LINK Genghis Khan series (1:00:03) Parallels between the decline of the Roman Republic and the US – TK LINK Rome series (1:05:10) Unexpected appearance of the word “God” in the text, ancient Chinese folk religions, matrilineal cultures (1:10:48) Confucius's views on friendship and how to choose your friends (1:11:47) Confucius transmitting values from earlier periods which were abandoned by his contemporaries (1:14:51) Graham Hancock interviews and conspiracies (1:20:15) “The pine and the cypress are the last to lose their leaves” (1:24:00) Final notes and wrap-up If you enjoyed this episode, let us know by leaving a review on iTunes and tell a friend. As always, let us know if you have any book recommendations! You can say hi to us on Twitter @TheRealNeilS, @adilmajid, @nateliason and share your thoughts on this episode. You can now support Made You Think using the Value-for-Value feature of Podcasting 2.0. This means you can directly tip the co-hosts in BTC with minimal transaction fees. To get started, simply download a podcast app (like Fountain or Breez) that supports Value-for-Value and send some BTC to your in-app wallet. You can then use that to support shows who have opted-in, including Made You Think! We’ll be going with this direct support model moving forward, rather than ads. Thanks for listening. See you next time!0 comments0
- 86: Comfort is Killing Us: The Comfort CrisisWelcome back to another episode of Made You Think! In this episode we discuss The Comfort Crisis by Michael Easter, and how our modern lifestyle and pursuit of ease might be making us miserable, stressed, and anxious. We cover a wide range of topics including: The connection between boredom and creativity Misogis and how to discover what you're truly capable of Why you don't necessarily want "less phone" How rucking could be a massive exercise hack The proper "dose" of outdoor, tech-free time And much more. Please enjoy, and make sure to follow Nat , Neil , and Adil on Twitter and share your thoughts on the episode. Links from the Episode: Mentioned in the Show: GORUCK (0:40) Raising Your Ceiling (8:28) Peter Attia’s Podcast episode with Michael Easter (9:01) Torrance Tests of Creative Thinking (11:22) Eight Mattress (48:36) Tim Ferriss Podcast episode with Josh Waitzkin (54:14) Books Mentioned: The Comfort Crisis Emergency (12:52) ( Book Episode) Antifragile (13:47) ( Book Episode) The Tibetan Book of Living and Dying (1:11:49) Moonwalking with Einstein (1:15:01) ( Book Episode) Analects of Confucius (1:33:32) People Mentioned: Michael Easter Nassim Taleb (14:13) Josh Waitzkin (54:08) Sogyal Rinpoche (1:11:48) Show Topics: (0:00) Rucking as a way to make you fit overall and where on your body you should be carrying the weight when you walk. (4:32) How your eyes and body adjust to virtual reality. In general, your eyes dilate differently when you’re using a screen vs. not using a screen. (8:25) In today’s episode, we’re diving into The Comfort Crisis by Michael Easter. The book is centered around the author’s caribou hunt in Alaska to challenge the idea of what comfort means to him. (12:51) Good writing is more about helping explain a concept you’re beginning to think about in a way that you haven’t been able to conceptualize on your own yet rather than teaching you something brand new. (15:19) Boredom is another theme talked about in the book. We tend to favor a highly comfortable life full of entertainment, and we get uncomfortable when we’re bored. However, making your life more comfortable isn’t necessarily going to improve it in the long term. (17:59) We live in a world where there is always something you can do so you never have to sit in boredom when you’re waiting. Because of this constant need to entertain ourselves, we’re losing time that we could be spending processing and crafting new ideas. The more that we can train ourselves to be comfortable in boredom, the more we regain our ability to not be so hyper-anxious and reactive all the time. (20:56) The connection between boredom and creativity is similar to the idea of rest recovery for working out. You wouldn’t work out the same muscle every day without a rest day. We’re essentially contracting the attention muscle all day long when we’re on our phones all the time and not giving it the recovery time it desperately needs. (23:00) So what’s the solution? Let yourself get bored. Rather than thinking “less phone” think “more boredom”. Making space for your thoughts and resetting the baseline. (30:58) What’s a sustainable way to get your brain rested regularly and how much outdoors time is recommended each month? (33:13) Misogis are challenges that allow you to reframe your perception of what you’re capable of achieving. Each year, it’s encouraged that you take on a challenge, one that’s really hard and one that is unique where you can’t compare yourself to others. (39:42) From Spartan Races, to pushup challenges, to training in the heat of a Texas summer, Nat, Neil, and Adil reflect on some of the harder things that they’ve experienced. As a species, we’re very capable of doing hard things that we often don’t push ourselves hard enough for. (49:00) The author’s struggle with alcoholism. Everyone self-medicates differently, whether it’s alcohol, conflict, or something more positive. It’s a matter of what you choose to fill the space with. (54:01) The language we use to approach things is critical. You can always find a way to enjoy a situation that most people would label as “bad”. (1:02:08) How do you reset from a bad mood or from feeling anxiety? Nat, Neil, and Adil talk about the ways they stay active. (1:04:54) How much exercise should you do and what’s the right amount? The more you can do, the better (of course, without injury and overtraining yourself). (1:09:24) Training yourself for long runs and building up your endurance. (1:11:34) “Western laziness is quite different. It consists of cramming our lives with compulsive activity, so there is no time at all to confront the real issues. This form of laziness lies in our failure to choose worthwhile applications for our energy.” Filling up our time with things that may or may not be meaningful, but we often don’t realize that we’re doing it. (1:14:36) When you look back over a long period of time, the days where you’re outside of your normal routine is what tends to stick out to you. (1:19:47) Finding the right amount of novelty to live a happy life. Is it possible to go too far into routine or too far into novelty? (1:23:36) Nat, Neil, and Adil share some of their key takeaways and lessons learned from the book. This includes finding more ways to be uncomfortable, embracing that discomfort, and prioritizing physical activity. (1:31:24) That concludes this episode! We hope you enjoyed it. Stay tuned for our first episode of 2023 as we cover the Analects of Confucious. If you enjoyed this episode, let us know by leaving a review on iTunes and tell a friend. As always, let us know if you have any book recommendations! You can say hi to us on Twitter @TheRealNeilS, @adilmajid, @nateliason and share your thoughts on this episode. You can now support Made You Think using the Value-for-Value feature of Podcasting 2.0. This means you can directly tip the co-hosts in BTC with minimal transaction fees. To get started, simply download a podcast app (like Fountain or Breez) that supports Value-for-Value and send some BTC to your in-app wallet. You can then use that to support shows who have opted-in, including Made You Think! We’ll be going with this direct support model moving forward, rather than ads. Thanks for listening. See you next time!0 comments0
- 85: Lessons from Laozi, the Tao Te ChingIn today’s episode, Nat Neil and Adil discuss the Tao Te Ching by Laozi. We each picked a few of our favorite chapters from the book to read and discuss, resulting in a wide-ranging discussion of work, happiness, ambition, finance, philosophy, and all our usual favorite subjects. Some of the topics we covered were: The importance of not over-extending yourself, being moderate and patient What does it mean to prioritize “inaction”? The balance between short and long-term productivity Which parts of the Tao do we each struggle with the most What it means to seek a “middle path.” Plus lots of tangents around fitness, entrepreneurship, work, other books, and more. Be sure to stick around for the end, where Nat and Neil discuss our new plans for the show and where it’s going in 2023. Remember to subscribe if you haven’t, and leave us a review on iTunes or Spotify if you liked the episode! Timestamps (1:10) - How different drugs created different financial crashes & philosophies (3:22) - Background on the Tao Te Ching (11:15) - Variations in the translations of the Tao Te Ching (17:00) - What is the “real” version of old texts? (21:20) - The theme of finding the middle ground, and inaction. Chapter 64. “If you rush into action, you will fail. If you hold on too tight, you will loose your grip. Therefore the Master lets things take their course and thus never fails.” (27:00) - The importance of doing nothing. Chapter 48. “He who conquers the world often does so by doing nothing. When one is compelled to do something, The world is already beyond his conquering.” (33:50) - The difference between short-term and long-term productivity. Sometimes doing nothing in the short term is the best strategy for the long term. (42:00) - Chapters 68, 24. The importance of being balanced, avoiding going to extremes. Avoiding the consequences of intense competition. “He who stands on tiptoe does not stand firm.” (51:00) - What’s something you’re doing that’s incongruous with the advice in the Tao? Neils: Shiny object syndrome. (54:00) - Nat’s: Impatience with professional success. (1:05:00) - Adil’s: Shiny object syndrome. (1:07:00) - The problem with the practical vs. the ideal, giving and receiving advice. (1:15:00) - Unintuitive advice in fitness. (1:21:00) - Aiming at a specific goal vs. aiming in abstract. (1:24:00) - The power of having a good adversary for bringing out your best. (1:28:00) - Wrapup: Upcoming books, plans for the podcast Mentioned in the Show Byrne Hobart (on Lunar Society ) (1:10) Analects of Confucius (two episodes from now) (4:51) Tao in You Website (11:15) ChatGPT (14:00) Nicomachean Ethics by Aristotle (25:00) The Alchemy of Finance by George Soros (29:05) Tyler Cowen (31:50) Cal Newport on Sam Harris (33:40) John McPhee (34:00) Children of Time , Adrian Tzchaicovsky (Nat got the age wrong, he was 46) (56:00) Godel Escher Bach , Douglas Hofstadter. Episode link (1:04:00) Antifragile , Nassim Taleb. Episode link (1:12:00) The Gibraltar skull (1:14:00) The Structure of Scientific Revolutions . Episode link . (1:15:00) Finite and Infinite Games . Episode link . (1:22:00) The Inner Game of Tennis . Episode link . (1:23:00) Robert Nozick (1:24:00) John Rawls (1:24:00) Huberman Lab Podcast (1:25:00) The Comfort Crisis (next episode!) (1:29:00)0 comments0
- 84: The Tangent EpisodeWelcome back to another episode of Made You Think! In this episode, Neil, Nat, and Adil give you a full 70 minutes doing what they do best: Going on tangents. Originally set to continue with the next book on their Great Books Project, the energy and caffeine took over as they dive into a variety of interesting discussions, stories, and ideas. This is an episode you don't want to miss! We cover a wide range of topics including: Our favorite virtual reality video games and table games How new leadership at Twitter has impacted the app recently The strengths and limits of GPT-3 Preventing burnout in longer-term or creative projects Being under-employed (on purpose) And much more. Please enjoy, and make sure to follow Nat , Neil , and Adil on Twitter and share your thoughts on the episode. Links from the Episode: Mentioned in the show: FTX (0:26) SuperHot (2:07) Satisfactory (4:54) Terraforming Mars (9:18) Catan (9:34) Klask (10:27) 7 Wonders (11:38) Monopoly Deal (12:11) Epic Gardening (17:12) FAMA (30:05) Tweet Deleter (33:21) Twitter employees quit in droves (37:33) Github (50:39) LEX AI (59:38) GPT-3 (1:00:33) All-In Podcast (1:09:15) Books Mentioned: Tao Te Ching (0:03) ( Nat's Book Notes) Enders Game (7:12) The Pathless Path (21:51) People Mentioned: Elon Musk (9:22) Kevin Espiritu (17:18) Paul Millerd (21:50) Marc Andreessen (31:53) Show Topics: (1:44) “Should we talk about the book?” This question answers itself as Nat, Neil, and Adil dive into conversations about their favorite virtual reality video games and board games, as well. (7:05) A lot of games out there actually help you develop business and life skills. Although video games encourage high amounts of screen time, there is a lot of skills you can learn from them. There are also physical board games representative of the real world but with some fictional elements to it, making it very appealing and educational. (14:22) It was at this point that the co-hosts decided they're too full of tangents to do a book episode. Nat, Neil, and Adil go back to talking about board games and the fun of strategic games. (18:00) Preventing burnout in longer-term projects. You can’t be on all the time. Creative work is also hard to do for extended periods of time because it can be limited by your energy and mental output. We may even have certain parts of the month or year where we’re extra productive and wonder why we can’t always be that way, but it’s important to remember that resting is just as important as being productive. (21:48) The idea of being under-employed purposely. If you've worked for a larger company or consultancy, you often have the feeling that you always have to be "on". When you work for yourself, it’s easy to fall back into the thought pattern that you have to be working all the time. (28:26) Social media and podcast presence while also having a job. There are now ways for employers to check the online behaviors of their employment candidates and screen them using AI-powered tools. (34:01) Some educational or funny content we save or bookmark for later tend to get lost in our library of likes. Platforms should create a better system for organizing and saving likes and bookmarks so they can be useful when you need to visit them again. (37:31) The mass quitting and letting go of employees at Twitter. Workplaces that are solely digital and how it compares to companies with a real-world product. The margins are very tight in retail and operating expenses have to be considered. Can these big tech companies run with only a small percentage of their workforce? (43:03) The operating expenses of Twitter and how the new leadership has impacted the app over the past couple weeks. (47:52) Twitter never became the main social media app, which gives it a certain appeal. Human communication is very context based. Tweets can often taken out of context because you're limited in how much you can explain yourself in a series of tweets, whereas in an article or podcast episode, you can fully describe what you mean by something without it getting twisted. (51:22) How communication and can often be unclear over the Internet. Tone can’t always be portrayed over a tweet reply, for example, making the receiver wonder whether it’s playful or aggressive. (55:20) Twitter’s algorithm and how it puts content on your feed. A lot of it may depend on the content that you interact with, what you ignore, and who you choose to follow. Is it possible for AI to sift through and optimize your social media feeds? (1:00:35) GPT-3 (Generative Pre-trained Transformer 3) and it’s capabilities. How can different tools and platforms incorporate GPT3 AI and what are some of its limits? (1:06:11) That wraps up this episode! Stay tuned for our next episode where we will actually discuss Tao Te Ching. If you'd like to listen to our other episodes in our Great Book series, check out our two most recent ones: The Odyssey and The Iliad. If you enjoyed this episode, let us know by leaving a review on iTunes and tell a friend. As always, let us know if you have any book recommendations! You can say hi to us on Twitter @TheRealNeilS, @adilmajid, @nateliason and share your thoughts on this episode. You can now support Made You Think using the Value-for-Value feature of Podcasting 2.0. This means you can directly tip the co-hosts in BTC with minimal transaction fees. To get started, simply download a podcast app (like Fountain or Breez) that supports Value-for-Value and send some BTC to your in-app wallet. You can then use that to support shows who have opted-in, including Made You Think! We’ll be going with this direct support model moving forward, rather than ads. Thanks for listening. See you next time!0 comments0
- Made You Think Oct 28 · 1h 30m 83: The (Anti) Hero's Journey: The Odyssey"Tell me about a complicated man. Muse, tell me how he wandered and was lost when he had wrecked the holy town of Troy, and where he went, and who he met, the pain he suffered in the storms at sea, and how he worked to save his life and bring his men back home. He failed to keep them safe; poor fools, they ate the Sun God’s cattle, and the god kept them from home. Now goddess, child of Zeus, tell the old story for our modern times. Find the beginning." Welcome back to another episode of Made You Think! In this episode, Neil, Nat, and Adil continue with the next book on their Great Books Project: The Odyssey by Homer. This book begins at the end of the Trojan War as Odysseus embarks on his journey home. Listen along as we talk about Odysseus' adventures, flashbacks, and of course, plenty of tangents. We cover a wide range of topics including: The argument of Odysseus as a hero vs. anti-hero Crypto, market cap, and the downfall of $BIRD AI and the future of how we write The reunification of Argos and Odysseus How guests are valued in different cultures And much more. Please enjoy, and make sure to follow Nat , Neil , and Adil on Twitter and share your thoughts on the episode. Links from the Episode: Mentioned in the show: Socratic dialogue (3:33) 300 (6:29) Chesterson’s Fence (17:46) Bicameral mind (22:07) Domestication of dogs (33:51) Bird Founder’s Stake Now Worth Less Than His Miami Mansion (47:05) Episode 7: A Crash Course in Bitcoin, Ethereum, and Cryptocurrency (1:07:58) Carthage (1:13:41) Lex (1:18:20) The Infinite Article (1:22:04) Blinkist (1:23:40) Books Mentioned: The Odyssey The Iliad (1:08) ( Book Episode) ( Nat's Book Notes) Dante’s Inferno (8:39) The Fourth Turning (17:29) ( Book Episode) The Lessons of History (36:10) ( Nat’s Book Notes) The Hobbit (40:45) Ulysses (47:58) Gödel, Escher, Bach (49:10) ( Book Episode) ( Nat’s Book Notes) Infinite Jest (49:10) ( Book Episode) ( Nat’s Book Notes) Atlas Shrugged (49:11) ( Book Episode) ( Nat’s Book Notes) On Writing: A Memoir of the Craft (55:48) Tao Te Ching (1:04:05) ( Nat's Book Notes) Seeing Like a State (1:05:52) ( Book Episode) ( Nat’s Book Notes) The Art of War (1:06:04) The Peloponnesian War (1:06:16) The Pioneers (1:07:30) The Epic of Gilgamesh (1:14:09) ( Book Episode) People Mentioned: Ian McKellan (0:50) Plato (3:43) Eminem (4:18) Will Durant (34:53) Ryan Reynolds (43:38) James Joyce (47:59) Daniel Tosh (51:14) Stephen King (55:48) Brett Favre (58:01) Show Topics: (0:36) In this episode, we’re continuing from where we left off on our Great Books List diving into The Odyssey by Homer. In case you missed our previous episode on another great by Homer, The Iliad, make sure to go check that one out! The Iliad and Odyssey differ in the way the narrative unfolds, despite being written by the same author. (5:17) The Odyssey is an oral story meaning that it’s been passed down by word of mouth. Nat, Neil, and Adil talk about some of the main differences between the Iliad and the Odyssey where the Odyssey was more story-driven and the Iliad presented more lessons and takeaways. (7:21) Odysseus: Was he a hero or an anti-hero? In some contexts, he’s portrayed as ‘god-like’ and admired for his strength and achievements. In other cases such as in Dante’s inferno, Odysseus is deep in hell for his crimes. (10:49) Where the story begins, it come years after the end of the Trojan War. There’s multiple layers to consider when recognizing the reliability of the narrator: Which of Odysseus' stories were dramatized by the author and how would it be different if told in Odysseus' exact words? (14:56) In short, the story is about Odysseus’ journey home from the Trojan War and all the adventures that happened along the way. One theme along his journey home was the idea of ' don't assume you know better ', and to respect the wisdom of the gods or your elders. (18:49) Although the Greek gods are supposed to be listened to and respected for their knowledge, there is always conflict and fighting among the gods. (21:25) We bring up the bicameral mind discussion from the last episode. Thinking of the gods not necessarily as deities but rather the intuition in our own minds. When it’s framed like that, it tells the lesson to not distrust your instinct too much. (25:13) What was the reasoning of Odysseus returning home in disguise? Though he was gone for 20 years, none of his loved ones recognized him under his disguise as a beggar. (30:33) The reunification of Argos and Odysseus. His dog recognized him immediately, though Odyssesus couldn't respond appropriately as he was still in disuise. Not many families in The Odyssey had dogs. History of the domestication of dogs. (36:49) How characters in the story trusted and treated their guests. Odysseus' loved ones didn't know it was Odysseus they were welcoming, yet they treated him very warmly. It's easier in a smaller community to be more welcoming of a guest because you may have a shared history and culture, and more similarities. (40:34) If The Odyssey were a movie in today’s time what would it be like? (45:54) Another episode, another tangent! We talk about cryptocurrency, the meaning of market cap, and projects that went significantly down in value shortly after launch. (47:55) Ulysses is a modern retelling of The Odyssey, but it's considered by many to be hard to read. There’s a difference when you have to read something vs. when you want to read something. It also matters at what point in your life you're reading a certain book. (51:37) Trolling on Twitter - when people don’t recognize what’s trolling and what’s not. (53:48) Nat and his progress on the book he’s writing. It can be hard to keep writing every day knowing it won’t be published for a long time. Nat, Neil, and Adil also talk about drug and alcohol use in famous figures such as Stephen King and Brett Favre. (1:03:24) The next book we’re reading is Tao Te Ching, another Eastern text thought to be written around 600 BC. Check out our Great Books List for links to each book we will be reading! (1:07:18) The Pioneers - building a town was so much different in the 1700s than it is now. How the west was settled by Americans who violently took over the territory. The stories we hear today on settlement are only the ones that survived. There are countless other stories in history that we’ll never hear. (1:15:04) The use of AI and how it can replace many jobs we do today, including writing. Can you have quality writing without a person and their experiences behind it? (1:22:02) Every article comes to an end, but what if there was technology that can continue to write itself as you are reading the text based on what you are interested in reading next? Lex (a tool by Every) gives us a summary of the Odyssey. (1:26:36) That concludes this episode! Stay tuned for our next episode: Tao Te Ching. If you'd like to listen to our other episodes in our Great Book series, here are the first 3: Epic of Gilgamesh, Genesis, and Exodus. If you enjoyed this episode, let us know by leaving a review on iTunes and tell a friend. As always, let us know if you have any book recommendations! You can say hi to us on Twitter @TheRealNeilS, @adilmajid, @nateliason and share your thoughts on this episode. You can now support Made You Think using the Value-for-Value feature of Podcasting 2.0. This means you can directly tip the co-hosts in BTC with minimal transaction fees. To get started, simply download a podcast app (like Fountain or Breez) that supports Value-for-Value and send some BTC to your in-app wallet. You can then use that to support shows who have opted-in, including Made You Think! We’ll be going with this direct support model moving forward, rather than ads. Thanks for listening. See you next time!0 comments0
- 82: The Wrath of Achilles: The Iliad“Like the generations of leaves, the lives of mortal men. Now the wind scatters the old leaves across the earth, now the living timber bursts with the new buds and spring comes round again. And so with men: as one generation comes to life, another dies away.” Welcome back to another episode of Made You Think! In this episode, Neil, Nat, and Adil continue with the next book on their Great Books Project: The Iliad by Homer. This book explores the themes of fate, gods, and the glory of war. Listen along as we dive in to the stories of the Trojan War centering around the greatest warrior, Achilles. We cover a wide range of topics including: The consequences of Achilles' rage and wrath Bicameral mind and the development of consciousness How war and battles were depicted at this point in time What differentiates us from animals? Why gaining new experiences can expand your viewpoints And much more. Please enjoy, and make sure to follow Nat , Neil , and Adil on Twitter and share your thoughts on the episode. Links from the Episode: Mentioned in the show: Episode 81: The Book of Exodus (0:28) Episode 80: The Book of Genesis (0:39) Riverside (1:18) Clubhouse (1:40) Twitter Held Discussions for $4 Billion Takeover of Clubhouse (2:05) Nat Chat episode featuring Neil (13:21) Bicameral Mentality (26:20) Achilles and Patroclus (55:49) Nat’s Ethics notes (59:36) Godfather movie (1:09:28) Books Mentioned: The Pioneers (5:16) The Peloponnesian War (12:13) Prometheus Bound (14:26) The Odyssey (26:16) The Mahabharata (38:21) The Qur'an (56:20) ( Book Episode) The Epic of Gilgamesh (57:56) ( Book Episode) Infinite Jest (1:06:30) ( Book Episode 1) ( Book Episode 2) ( Nat’s Book Notes) East of Eden (1:09:07) ( Nat's Book Notes) The Three-Body Problem (1:10:16) ( Nat's Book Notes) Atlas Shrugged (1:12:27) ( Book Episode) ( Nat's Book Notes) People Mentioned: David McCullough (5:16) James Patterson (8:34) Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson (45:04) Jason Momoa (45:18) Russell Crowe (45:33) Brad Pitt (45:50) Tom Hiddleston (46:00) Vladimir Putin (49:57) Joe Biden (50:02) Nassim Taleb (1:06:16) Show Topics: (6:08) In today's episode, we're discussing The Iliad by Homer, written around 8th century BC. We’ve moved forward ~500-1000 years from where we started on our book list. Make sure to check out our Great Books List and follow along with us as we put out new episodes every 3 weeks! (11:00) Homer included a lot of data on the ships back then, and The Iliad stores that historical information. There’s some element of using stories to record historical information. (13:16) Reading about history makes you reflect on the accuracy of the narrative as it could have been written to serve the story they would most like to portray. As we read more of these books written in the same era, we may see some of the same historical events happening and spoken about in different ways, similar to how news outlets report the same events or world issues in much different ways. (16:29) Very rarely does everyone objectively agree that something or someone is good or bad. Most conflicts will have people on both sides of the coin who have different backgrounds, values, and opinions. (19:47) These gods are depicted as very human-like, and they do not closely resemble gods in the way that we typically think about gods. They are imperfect, and they also get urges and emotions just like we do. (21:18) The stories of Achilles and the consequences of rage. Not only does he lose his bride, but also his best friend. On top of that, he loses his honor and dignity. As the story ends, it’s all about how he regains that honor and dignity and is able to move on from his mistakes. (26:20) Bicameral mind: Humans back then were lacking what we call consciousness today. They heard and obeyed demands they heard in their minds from what they identified as gods. They didn’t hear their own mind as their own thoughts and urges, but rather as gods telling them to do it. When did consciousness develop? (28:42) It’s implied in this text that we are not like the animals, and being able to suppress our urges of rage and wrath is what differentiates us. We have morals and know right from wrong. (34:23) Praying- Did it mean back then what it means now? Or is it more similar to manifestation and paying more attention to the things you wish for, such as money? It’s conceptually similar because it's a ritual that takes up a big part of your headspace. (38:13) Neil makes a connection to the concepts in The Mahabharata where the good guys do a lot of bad things to win the war, and the bad guys act more honorably than even the good guys in some ways. (42:21) The Ajax and Hector fight scene. Nat explains the difference in ancient military conflicts where many may have been resolved by the two armies marching up and meeting. If one army is much larger, the opposing army would admit defeat. If the army size is more balanced, they would choose a fighter on each side to battle against each other. (44:55) It’s not a complete episode of Made You Think without a tangent! Who would play the characters of the Iliad if it were shot as a movie in today’s time? (46:58) Achilles' battle with Hector. There are a lot of these duels, and while most remained honorable and respectful, this one does not. War was portrayed very different back then, and while it was still brutal, there were rules to war where everyone was on the same page rather than it being a free-for-all. (51:21) The book has an interesting way of depicting the dynamics of male relationships. Achilles was extremely distraught over the loss of Patroclus. What was the extent of their friendship and how much of it has to do with the translation over time? (56:17) Adil shares his experience reading the Qur'an where the author offers different translations side by side to help the reader get the full Arabic meaning of the text. When you translate a text into English, a lot of the meanings and artistry in the original language may get lost. (1:00:15) We all have ideas and concepts that we have focused on for long periods in our lives. Once you exhaust the value from an idea, you move on to new ideas and viewpoints that build from the previous. For example, you may read something early on in your life but not extract much value from it until later in your life when you have a new foundation on a given topic. (1:03:01) Gaining experience to attach your newfound knowledge to. We each experience things at different points in our lives. Examples: losing a loved one or having kids. These experiences often change how you may think about things in your life. (1:07:53) A monastic person spends a lot of time alone with the voices in their head, and they in some way become a trusted person when it comes to certain matters: Interpreting dreams, helping others to identify the significance of their thoughts, understanding consciousness, etc. (1:08:58) In most good books, it’s clear who the good vs. bad characters are, but this is not true in all cases. There are many books and movies with very complex characters that go deeper than just whether they're good or bad. (1:10:59) That wraps up this episode! The next book on our list is The Odyssey by Homer then it's back to the Bible for the book of Deuteronomy. You can catch our previous 3 episodes of the Great Book Series here - Epic of Gilgamesh, Genesis, and Exodus. If you enjoyed this episode, let us know by leaving a review on iTunes and tell a friend. As always, let us know if you have any book recommendations! You can say hi to us on Twitter @TheRealNeilS, @adilmajid, @nateliason and share your thoughts on this episode. You can now support Made You Think using the Value-for-Value feature of Podcasting 2.0. This means you can directly tip the co-hosts in BTC with minimal transaction fees. To get started, simply download a podcast app (like Fountain or Breez) that supports Value-for-Value and send some BTC to your in-app wallet. You can then use that to support shows who have opted-in, including Made You Think! We’ll be going with this direct support model moving forward, rather than ads. Thanks for listening. See you next time!0 comments0
- 81: Out of Egypt: The Book of Exodus"The Lord said, “I have indeed seen the misery of my people in Egypt. I have heard them crying out because of their slave drivers, and I am concerned about their suffering. So I have come down to rescue them from the hand of the Egyptians and to bring them up out of that land into a good and spacious land." Welcome back to another episode of Made You Think! In this episode, Neil and Nat discuss the next book on their Great Books Project: the book of Exodus. We pick up from where we left off in Genesis and dive into the many key themes of Exodus as Moses leads the Israelites out of Egypt. We cover a wide range of topics including: Exodus as the origin story of Judaism Exclusionary vs. inclusionary nations Operating systems for building a successful community Connections between the Code of Hammurabi and Exodus Early human civilizations in the 2nd millenium BC And much more. Please enjoy, and make sure to follow Nat , Neil , and Adil on Twitter and share your thoughts on the episode. Links from the Episode: Mentioned in the show: Cleopatra lived closer to the computer age (3:44) CrowdHealth (14:48) Babylonia (44:34) Göbekli Tepe (46:18) 2nd Millenium map (46:27) Notre Chico - Caral-Supe civilization (47:50) Easter Island heads (48:55) Angkor Wat (49:46) How Exodus revises the laws of Hammurabi (1:01:49) Books Mentioned: Epic of Gilgamesh (0:22) ( Book Episode) Genesis (0:43) ( Book Episode) The Iliad (1:03) ( Nat’s Book Notes) The Qur'an (1:42) ( Book Episode) The Network State (8:55) The Odyssey (24:37) ( Nat's Book Notes) People Mentioned: Hammurabi (31:45) Marco Polo (50:43) Show Topics: (0:12) In today's episode, we're continuing the Great Book Series with Exodus. If you haven't checked out our previous episodes from our book list, make sure to go check out Epic of Gilgamesh and Genesis! (4:23) When reading stories that have stood the test of time, there has to be some reason for their significance. Even without the religious aspect to it, they wouldn’t have been passed along or written down if they weren’t important in some way. (8:52) What is a nation? Some nations are very closed and exclusionary where you can’t become a member or citizen. The U.S. is a more missionary-type nation that allows people to become citizens even if they were not born here. (12:36) A more exclusionary type of nation can often lead to a higher quality of life. Conversely, if you let more people in, there would be less resources for all. An open society that is also highly supportive with enough resources, is it possible to have both? (17:13) Genesis ends with all the sons of Israel going to Egypt and settling there, however they’re living there enslaved. God communicates to Moses to get his people out of Egypt. When we think about why the story of Exodus has persisted through the years, one of the main themes that gets discussed is the fear of God aspect that was shown to the Israelites and Egyptians through the plagues. (20:04) The 10 plagues. There were locusts, hail, and disease which were likely interconnected as one thing leads to the next. However, at this particular time there may not have been a realization that these are connected, and instead, the people saw them all as individual plagues. (25:58) Much of the story has a narrative style until we reach the chapters stating God's law. When we go back to thinking about how this was passed down orally for potentially hundreds of years, these stories and laws may have been told differently at one point and these were the parts that settled and got written down. (31:22) The Old Testament provides a layer of ethics for others to follow, and it was a huge advancement to not take one wrongdoing and kill someone over it but rather to punish them for what it is they’ve done. If you have a society that escalates violence, it will always become more and more violent. (34:57) There’s an element of the story where God is a protector to the Israelites, and although they were enslaved in Egypt, they were ultimately able to be led out of there through Him. (37:24) Monotheism and polytheism. In the text, other gods are being referenced, and those other gods are depicted as merely false idols made up by the enemy or misinterpretations. Genesis starts with Adam and Eve, but that doesn’t necessarily mean it’s the start of the whole world, rather just where this story and Jewish history begins. (43:05) Many developments happened in the areas of Israel, Egypt, and Babylonia around this time. It could have also been that they had the means of documenting their stories where other areas didn’t. Nat and Neil discuss these very early on civilizations and cities. (49:39) The dates and timeline of some historical events can be really surprising. It’s hard to wrap our heads around the fact that the world was way less interconnected than it is today. We live in a time where everything has already been explored and accounted for. (53:51) Western culture tends to be more isolated whereas other cultures tend to be more communal. It’s common for people who come to the US to feel lonely compared to their home country. Operating systems for building a successful community with longevity. (59:10) Kosher laws and its importance. Not all of these laws have held up today, for example not eating shell fish and pork. This was also an era before refrigeration. The language 'eye for an eye' and 'tooth for a tooth' is vastly similar to the Code of Hammurabi. Did Hammurabi come up with the idea and the surrounding areas adopted it or was it already a fairly widespread idea at the time? (1:02:16) It can be challenging to judge the intent of someone’s actions, so often times it’s judged by the outcomes of their actions. Neil gives an example. Charging and collecting interest on debts. The burden of the responsibility falls on the lender where they have to be sure they make a good decision about who they lend money to. (1:08:54) Laws are a big theme in Exodus, this includes laws on the regulation of slavery. As Moses led them out of slavery in Egypt, they provide some basic human rights for people coming out of slavery. There’s also the idea of a covenant, which is an agreement between the people and God. If you follow it, you get rewarded. If you don’t follow it, you get consequences. (1:13:18) The idea of canceling debt every 7 years in the Bible. Would that work in practice? Nat and Neil share their final thoughts on Exodus and how it compared in their minds to Genesis. (1:17:38) Thanks for listening! Next on our book list is Iliad by Homer. Make sure to stay tuned and check out our list of what's next. You can catch our previous 2 episodes of the Great Book Series here - Epic of Gilgamesh and Genesis. If you enjoyed this episode, let us know by leaving a review on iTunes and tell a friend. As always, let us know if you have any book recommendations! You can say hi to us on Twitter @TheRealNeilS, @adilmajid, @nateliason and share your thoughts on this episode. You can now support Made You Think using the Value-for-Value feature of Podcasting 2.0. This means you can directly tip the co-hosts in BTC with minimal transaction fees. To get started, simply download a podcast app (like Fountain or Breez) that supports Value-for-Value and send some BTC to your in-app wallet. You can then use that to support shows who have opted-in, including Made You Think! We’ll be going with this direct support model moving forward, rather than ads. Thanks for listening. See you next time!0 comments0
- 80: From Eden to Egypt: The Book of Genesis"In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. And God said, Let there be light: and there was light." Welcome back to another episode of Made You Think! In this episode, Neil and Adil discuss the next book on their Great Books Project: the book of Genesis. The book begins with the story of creation and wraps up with the lives of Jacob and Joseph, with numerous stories, lessons, and genealogies in between the 50 chapters. We cover a wide range of topics including: Science and religion: Do they conflict or complement each other? The beginning of time and formation of Earth How depictions of God, or a higher power, differ across religions The stories of Adam, Eve, Jacob, Joseph, Abraham, Isaac, and more Whether the Bible should be interpreted literally vs. allegorically And much more. Please enjoy, and make sure to follow Nat , Neil , and Adil on Twitter and share your thoughts on the episode. Links from the Episode: Mentioned in the show: Jordan Peterson’s Bible series (1:17) Aaron Rodgers on the Aubrey Marcus podcast (10:58) Ayahuasca (11:05) Unicellular organisms (26:32) Fermi paradox (29:59) Idiocracy (37:26) Idiocracy opening scene (37:42) Islamic attitudes towards science (39:55) Unmoved Mover (1:07:40) Watchmen (1:13:35) Books Mentioned: Epic of Gilgamesh (0:58) ( Book Episode) The History of God (7:45) The Bible (Karen Armstrong) (7:49) Bhagavad Gita (19:10) ( Nat's Book Notes) Rare Earth (28:04) Vehicles (31:25) East of Eden (58:30) ( Nat's Book Notes) Of Mice and Men (1:00:44) The Grapes of Wrath (1:00:52) Biocentrism (1:11:16) People Mentioned: Jordan Peterson (1:14) Karen Armstrong (7:24) Nassim Taleb (41:15) Jennifer Lawrence (58:55) Steven Spielberg (59:28) John Steinbeck (1:00:30) Show Topics: 0:28 We continue the Great Book Series with the book of Genesis from the Old Testament. 3:30 Adil and Neil talk about their familiarity with Genesis before they read it for the show. The book was passed down through the oral tradition, and wasn’t written down until hundreds of years after it was spoken. It has also been translated into over 700 languages. It poses the question, who wrote down the story, and how much of it has changed being passed down orally? 7:11 Adil talks about books he has read previous to Genesis by Karen Armstrong. One thing he notes is that the Bible was not meant to be read literally. Of course, there are parts that can be taken literally, but many of the stories are allegorical and symbolic in meaning. 12:45 Jacob's story: Jacob wrestles with someone who is unnamed, though interpreted as God. At one point, they touch hips and he walks away injured, but he has that injury for the rest of his life. This story, if not taken literally, can allude to the internal scars that you have battling and wrestling with your inner demons. 14:01 The structure of Genesis. First comes the story of creation, followed by the Garden of Eden with Adam and Eve. The term Toledot meaning “generations” or "descendants. The last section of Genesis is dedicated to Jacob, which sets up for the following book in the Bible, Exodus. 15:27 The story of Joseph and Jacob. This story resonates on a moral level with people because it serves as a reminder that the journey is just as important as the destination. Your journey may not always go as planned. Even if you have everything you want, you may still have regrets about how you got there. 19:00 Neil makes a connection to the Bhagavad Gita. One of the morals of this story is very similar. In the end, the good guys got what they wanted and won the war, but lost everything in the process. Was it worth it? It’s a similar message that Jacob’s life represents in Genesis. 20:05 The redeeming arc for Jacob came through his brother Esau and how he forgave Jacob for his wrongdoings. When they met, it may appear that Esau was upset and Jacob was ready to meet his fate, yet he ended up being forgiven. Through that forgiveness, Jacob was transformed. 23:21 We’re all on our own path to learning, both spiritually and religiously. Growing up, you tend to adopt the beliefs of your family and other surroundings. We often believe that when something isn’t completely certain, that it must be wrong. 27:16 Evolution, the beginning of time, and extraterrestrial life. When you think about how everything has been formed in a way that led to life here on earth, it’s astonishing. If the universe is indeed infinite, then it’s very possible that it lines up for other life forms to exist elsewhere, and they could exist under completely different conditions than on Earth. 31:23 Adil makes a connection to the book Vehicles. The knowledge we have isn’t always solid and requires faith to believe in. 34:10 Organized religion has tended to go with a more literal meaning, for example modern Christianity in America. One common belief is that if you’re scientific, you can't also be religious and it’s made into a dichotomy. It's possible that they can be completely aligned with each other. Both can be viewed as tools for understanding the world better, and they don’t have to necessarily be viewed as opponents. 36:03 Why do subjective experience exists? If the goal of life is just to produce offspring and continue the circle of life, why do we have this personal experience of life, and how is it beneficial? There isn’t much of a scientific explanation for it. 38:55 A lot of the early scientific research in Europe was done by religious people to prove God was real, and that aspects of religion that can be backed by science. The two stories diverged and this led to religious texts being interpreted more literally. However in other religions, Islam for example, it's typically believed that science and religion work together. 41:34 Adam and Eve story, and the significance of the serpent if you take the Bible symbolically. The snake has a unique hold in human psychology. Neil and Adil talk about different animals and how they’re perceived in different communities and religions. 46:15 Eve's name means "living" in Hebrew, but it comes from a root that can also mean "snake". There are a lot of unanswered questions that came up, and as we continue to Exodus, we may learn some of these answers to these questions. 51:20 The curses in the book of Genesis are all tied to the knowledge of self awareness and the future. Childbirth was the curse passed on to women, and even early on, women have a knowledge of the pain of it. Men have the curse of labor and work. While the benefits of knowledge and self awareness are received, this also comes with these curses. 53:00 Two main ways that God both gifted and punished His people were through fertility and land. Neil and Adil discuss the story of Abraham, Issac, and Ishmael. 1:01:33"In the sweat of your face shall you eat bread until you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken; for dust you are and to dust you shall return." In Abrahamic religions (including Christianity, Islam, and Judaism), they bury their dead. In other religions, there is no burial. 1:06:33 Depictions of God in different religions. In some religions they feel a depiction of their god it’s a good way to connect, but in others it can feel alienating. 1:07:13 With each theory about how the universe was created, you can keep asking the question, "What came before that?" The infinite universe as constantly expanding and contracting. The idea of biocentrism, and how it's the observer that makes something a reality. 1:14:36 Thanks for listening! Stay tuned for our next episode on the book of Exodus, and be sure to keep following along as we work through our Great Books List. If you enjoyed this episode, let us know by leaving a review on iTunes and tell a friend. As always, let us know if you have any book recommendations! You can say hi to us on Twitter @TheRealNeilS, @adilmajid, @nateliason and share your thoughts on this episode. You can now support Made You Think using the Value-for-Value feature of Podcasting 2.0. This means you can directly tip the co-hosts in BTC with minimal transaction fees. To get started, simply download a podcast app (like Fountain or Breez) that supports Value-for-Value and send some BTC to your in-app wallet. You can then use that to support shows who have opted-in, including Made You Think! We’ll be going with this direct support model moving forward, rather than ads. Thanks for listening. See you next time!0 comments0
- 79: The World's Oldest Story: Epic of Gilgamesh“Humans are born, they live, then they die, this is the order that the gods have decreed. But until the end comes, enjoy your life, spend it in happiness, not despair. Savor your food, make each of your days a delight, bathe and anoint yourself, wear bright clothes that are sparkling clean, let music and dancing fill your house, love the child who holds you by the hand, and give your wife pleasure in your embrace. That is the best way for a man to live.” Welcome back to another episode of Made You Think! In this episode, Nat, Neil, and Adil begin their Great Books Project starting with the oldest book on their list, Epic of Gilgamesh. This piece has been regarded as one of the oldest written stories to exist. It follows the story of Gilgamesh, who is two-thirds god and one-third man, as he searches for the secret of immortality following the death of a loved one. We cover a wide range of topics including: How written stories have been passed down through centuries Parallels between Gilgamesh and other religious texts An assortment of theories such as the flood myth and the Black Sea hypothesis Should you interpret ancient texts literally? Why not all science is necessarily good science And much more. Please enjoy, and make sure to follow Nat , Neil , and Adil on Twitter and share your thoughts on the episode. Links from the Episode: Mentioned in the show: The Ancients (7:02) The Library of Alexandria (7:59) Sumerian Kings list (10:17) Images of the tablets (23:11) Flood myth (35:35) Black Sea Hypothesis (34:51) Letting children choose their diets (41:32) Masa Chips (42:11) Definition of Europe in early- to mid-antiquity (52:43) Nat's essay - Church of Science (55:04) Remote Viewing (57:22) Princeton Engineering Anomalies Research Lab (59:16) Princeton ESP lab must have foreseen its end (59:24) Sleep paralysis (1:00:40) Books Mentioned: Theogeny (1:13) Works and Days (1:17) ( Nat's Book Notes) The Iliad (1:19) ( Nat's Book Notes) Tao Te Ching (1:29) The Egyptian Book of the Dead (6:41) The Three-Body Problem (8:09) ( Nat's Book Notes) The Hero with a Thousand Faces (12:22) ( Nat's Book Notes) The Power of Myth (12:23) ( Book Episode) ( Nat's Book Notes) The Denial of Death (14:24) ( Book Episode) ( Nat’s Book Notes) Socrates (21:52) ( Nat's Book Notes) Magna Carta (26:02) The Prince (26:08) First Bite (39:32) People Mentioned: Confucius (1:33) Plato (21:50) Aquinas (26:15) Dante (26:16) Show Topics: 0:05 We start the Great Book Series off with with The Epic of Gilgamesh. From order of oldest to most recent, we will be reading this list of books and creating new episodes every 3 weeks until the list is complete. Follow along, and read the books with us as we go! 5:34 This book is estimated to date back to as far as 2100 BC. With how old the writing is, it's fascinating to think about how much of the story has changed along the way from the original text. The way a culture recorded its information determines how we think about it today. In the time and location of Gilgamesh, everything was rich in clay so they used clay tablets to record everything. 8:58 With stories that are orally passed down, it's similar to a game of telephone where details get changed along the way. This leads to different areas of the world telling the same story in very different ways. 11:49 There are several themes to the story, and many of these themes and stories are told throughout history. They’re not new by any means. One of the main themes talked about in this part of the episode is immortality. 14:50 At the opening of the story, Gilgamesh is portrayed as almost villain-like. As the story goes on, he ends up redeeming himself on the journey to find immortality. In this book, even the superhuman are very humanized, and they still fall into impulses and desires that all of humanity faces. 17:48 For the stories that stand the test of time, why did they last among the potentially thousands of stories that didn't make it? Gilgamesh starts out as someone so vain with no fear of death. After experiencing a great loss, he seeks to obtain immortality, and tries to reconcile his fear of death. It’s only what you build that will outlast you. This lesson is ironic considering that this is one of the oldest books to exist and was physically written onto tablets. 21:36 How much of this story got lost? While much of the story was able to be pieced together from the Babylonian tablets, not all of the tablets have survived, and some are damaged beyond repair. 23:54 Flood story: There have been numerous flood stories from around the world. There are some parallels of Gilgamesh to the story of Noah's Ark. While some details are general, some details are extremely similar. As Gilgamesh goes to seek immortality, he encounters a character who resembles the Biblical Noah. 30:35 With many ancient cities being located on large bodies of water, a large flood would affect them much more than we realize. Part of Rome’s advantage was being hilly so that they were able to endure catastrophic events much better in comparison to other cities near water. When stories were written thousands of years ago, we often forget to account for how their geograpical location plays out. 33:32 Flood myth, Black Sea hypothesis, and the aquatic ape hypothesis. The story of Gilgamesh and other stories in history, and understanding how the context of local geography adds to it. 37:45 If you are in tune with how your body is feeling and what it needs, would you naturally know what food and other nutrients your body needs to grow and heal? Often times the noise and busyness make it more difficult to be in tune with our mind and body. 45:24 When they found the story of Gilgamesh on the 12 tablets, it was the first time they found stories very similar in nature to the Hebrew Bible. Other parallels between Gilgamesh and religious text: a 7-year drought, and the story of Adam and Eve. 50:44 The literal interpretation of the stories in the Bible is a relatively new phenomenon. How much of it was cross-cultural influence for other religions that read their Bible completely literal? 55:02 Science can be both good and bad. Not everyone is scientifically literate, and not every study is reliable. Anything you want to prove, you can most likely find a study to prove your point, whether that scientific experiment is fully credible or not. 59:43 Sleep paralysis, dream state, and shared dreams. There are common, unusual experiences that humans have shared while sleeping, with one of those being able to see or sense a shadow being. 1:01:11 Thanks for listening! Next up on our Great Books List, we will be reading the book of Genesis, followed by Exodus. You can keep track of our list here and reach out to us if you have any suggestions. If you enjoyed this episode, let us know by leaving a review on iTunes and tell a friend. As always, let us know if you have any book recommendations! You can say hi to us on Twitter @TheRealNeilS, @adilmajid, @nateliason and share your thoughts on this episode. You can now support Made You Think using the Value-for-Value feature of Podcasting 2.0. This means you can directly tip the co-hosts in BTC with minimal transaction fees. To get started, simply download a podcast app (like Fountain or Breez) that supports Value-for-Value and send some BTC to your in-app wallet. You can then use that to support shows who have opted-in, including Made You Think! We’ll be going with this direct support model moving forward, rather than ads. Thanks for listening. See you next time!0 comments0
- 78: Seduced by Nihilism: The Revolt of the Public“No matter what I believe to be true, there always seems to be another side to the question. If you were to put me to the torture, I’d probably confess that this is my analytic ideal: to consider the question from as many relevant perspectives as the mind can hold.” Welcome back to another episode of Made You Think! In this episode, Nat, Neil, and Adil talk about their key takeaways from The Revolt of the Public by Martin Gurri. With technology giving us access to more information than ever, the overall trust level between the public and the governing elite is at an all time low. We cover a wide range of topics including: The relationship between sources of information and their level of authority Nihilism resulting from a lack of trust in authority and the current system How cancel culture may keep people from taking action on their passions Power relations between the elites and the public The move from criticizing people to criticizing the systems themselves And much more. Please enjoy, and make sure to follow Nat , Neil , and Adil on Twitter and share your thoughts on the episode. Links from the Episode: Mentioned in the show: NASA Begins America’s Mars Exploration Approach (30:08) Palmer Luckey - All In Summit (30:41) Anduril (30:55) Manhattan Project (33:38) IRB (34:53) Ben Shapiro’s on cancel culture (40:56) National Enquirer (42:02) Nat’s thread on taking action (43:25) Roe v Wade (48:31) Occupy movement (55:33) V for Vendetta (1:00:24) Pocket Casts (1:24:34) Stitcher (1:24:34) Books Mentioned: Revolt of the Public Seeing Like a State (0:53) ( Book Episode) ( Nat’s Book Notes) The Fourth Turning (9:03) ( Book Episode) The Dictator’s Handbook (1:11:33) ( Book Episode) ( Nat’s Book Notes) The Iliad (1:17:39) Chaos Monkeys (1:25:50) People Mentioned: Alex Jones (15:01) Dan Carlin (15:06) Joe Biden (19:14) Donald Trump (19:30) Joe Rogan (21:21) Elon Musk (23:44) Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (25:53) Nassim Taleb (29:56) Jason Calacanis (30:50) Neil Ferguson (38:44) Ben Shapiro (40:37) Jeff Bezos (42:00) Greg Abbott (45:30) Beto O'Rourke (52:00) Andrew Yang (52:13) (Episode #47, #48) Antonio García Martínez (1:25:50) Show Topics: 0:43 In today's episode, Nat, Neil, and Adil are discussing Revolt of the Public by Martin Gurri. This will wrap up our crypto series, and if you're interested in more like this, be sure to check out some of our previous episodes! 4:02 Adil goes over some of the core ideas of the book, with one of them being the relationship between sources of information and their authority. When there’s fewer sources of information, each source has greater authority. So if there’s only one source, they are the sole authority. There’s been an increase on news sources, and with so many sources, it opens up more opportunity for contradiction between them. 7:10 Negation; Many elections have been won by negation rather than inspiration. As we gain access to more and more information, it can become harder to trust authority. There’s a need for a new system of trust and authority to emerge that can exist within this hyper-access to information we have. 12:09 In the Choices section of the book, there were two parts: 1. What individuals can do 2. What government can do. Gurri frames our current paradigms around authority as being emergent from the Industrial Age. When the public needs answers, they turn to institutions rather than individuals. "That passive mass audience on which so many political and economic institutions depended had itself unbundled, disaggregated, fragmented into what I call vital communities: groups of wildly disparate size gathered organically around a shared interest or theme." 16:33 How can you influence people in a subtle way? Adil makes a pyramid analogy, where the elites are at the top and the public is at the bottom. The elites are interested in increasing the distance between the top and the bottom, however the author argues that in order to succeed in the age of the Revolt of the Public, you actually need to reduce that space. "The quality that sets the true elites apart – that bestows authority on their actions and expressions – isn’t power, or wealth, or education, or even peruasiveness. It’s integrity in life and work. A healthy society is one in which such exemplary types draw the public toward them purely by the force of their example. Without compulsion, ordinary persons aspire to resemble the extraordinary, not superficially but fundamentally, because they wish to partake of superior models of being or doing." In the Industrial Age, it was common to believe that politicians and CEOs were super-people, but as we got more access to information, we became more aware that people aren’t super-people, and that everyone is human. 20:46 It’s not a matter of whether elites are good or bad, there’s tradeoffs to having a society that leans more towards the elite side vs. public side. 26:37 The last chapter of the book is an updated edition, speaking on Trump and how he is in a way, the ultimate nihilistic politician. Reducing your distance from the public as a political figure helps you sell your story more. It’s also about the way that you tell your story. Failing governments vs. failing companies- What’s the difference? 32:34 Lack of big national projects in our lifetime. One big project was the Covid vaccine, but it wasn’t the government that implemented this project. 33:59 The threshold for what’s acceptable in research has changed since the 1970s, so there’s a lot of work that we wouldn’t be able to do now that may have been allowed decades ago. A lot of what politicians and other public figures do is almost immediately knowable due to technology and the speed at which news travels. A possible consequence of this could be fear of taking action. When we get to a point of wanting to take action, we may worry about things that we’ve done in the past that would be resurfaced. 40:03 Cancel culture. If you want to become a positive leader, negative things coming out can hurt you. By acknowledging your faults or even getting ahead of it, you can deflate some of the claims made. 43:04 Many people don’t take action on something that they’re passionate about. By posting about it, it takes away the felt need to act on it. It feels as if you’ve already acted on it, and the job is done. A protest may not convince people to change their mind that much, but a lot of the power comes from reminding politicians that they work for us, and also serves as a release of anger. Democracies have led to this tendency for politicians to promise more than they can deliver, and the public will vote for the politicians that promise to deliver the most, regardless of the amount of faith they have that they can execute those promises. 48:05 There’s room for either political party to step up and bridge the gap on big issues, especially with with the recent Roe v Wade decision. 53:04 Covid’s role in the Revolt of the Public. It changed our relationship with government authority. During this period of time, for many people it was the first time they really felt the presence of government in their life. 55:27 The book has a section about mass protest movements in the US and Europe. The citizens taking place in the protests are generally in the middle or upper-middle class, college-educated, and not actually the ones struggling in society. 59:10 Nihilism as a threat to democratic institutions. As institutions leak credibility and legitimacy, the blame shifts from individuals in the system (such as bad politicians and leaders) to the system. This results in lack of trust of authority, and in turn, people want to destroy everything to feel like there is progress being made in some type of way. 1:04:10 If you could implement one policy what would it be? Adil shares an idea of subsidizing exit costs from one state to another, where if someone wanted to move out of their state, they’d be provided with services and support. This would allow states to see the numbers of people staying and leaving, and there’s consequences for passing unfavorable legislature. Nat’s idea would be to have government agencies to cut their budgets by 90% for one year. A lot of the problems that exist in our country stem from financial irresponsibility. Neil shared that he would make Congress 10x larger while making it a part time, work from home job. The number of influential people in Congress is so small that it’s easy to bribe them with their district. Initially, being a Congressman wasn’t initially a full time job, as most had other roles and they just happened to serve in Congress too. They were more in touch with how people lived. 1:15:38 Nat shares a new technique he's using to track books he reads. He jots the date that he started reading the book with some notes about what’s going on in life at the time. When finished, he will write in the book what book he’s reading next. Over the years, the books will be networked together in physical form. 1:17:12 This concludes the crypto/libertarian series on Made You Think! The next book we’re reading is The Iliad. We’re using Tommy Collison's Great Books List to guide future episodes, and we're expanding it to encompass a wider range of books. Got any suggestions of books to add? Let us know! If you enjoyed this episode, let us know by leaving a review on iTunes and tell a friend. As always, let us know if you have any book recommendations! You can say hi to us on Twitter @TheRealNeilS, @adilmajid, @nateliason and share your thoughts on this episode. You can now support Made You Think using the Value-for-Value feature of Podcasting 2.0. This means you can directly tip the co-hosts in BTC with minimal transaction fees. To get started, simply download a podcast app (like Fountain or Breez) that supports Value-for-Value and send some BTC to your in-app wallet. You can then use that to support shows who have opted-in, including Made You Think! We’ll be going with this direct support model moving forward, rather than ads. Thanks for listening. See you next time!0 comments0
- Made You Think Jun 15 · 1h 14m 77: The Invisible Tax: End The Fed"Everyone should have an intense interest in what money is and how it’s manipulated by the few at the expense of the many. Money is crucial for survival. It is necessary for maintaining a free society. A healthy economy depends on it. Limiting political power is impossible without it. Sound money is essential for preventing unnecessary wars. Prosperity and peace in the long run are impossible without it." Welcome back to another episode of Made You Think! In this episode, Nat and Neil are joined by their official new co-host, Adil Majid! In today's episode, they discuss their key takeaways from End the Fed by Ron Paul, a book which explains the fundamental problems with fiat money and provides a history on banking in the US. If you've never challenged the role of the Federal Reserve, this is an episode you won't want to miss. We cover a wide range of topics including: • Currency vs. money; How are they different? • The shift in power from countries to companies • Money printing, inflation, and the fate of the US dollar • The Cantillon Effect, and who benefits the most from this • Why utility is important in the longevity of currency And much more. Please enjoy, and make sure to follow Nat, Neil, and Adil on Twitter and share your thoughts on the episode. Links from the Episode: Mentioned in the show: Great Books Program (2:11) Growth Machine (8:22) Audit the Fed, Sanders and Paul (10:04) Taylor Pearson - Cryptocurency and the Turkey Problem (12:28) Luna (19:45) Tether (20:08) Nat’s Tokenomics 101 (22:35) Nat's Tokenomics 102 (22:35) Starlink (26:46) The Tim Dillon Show (29:16) Reagan tells Soviet jokes (35:04) Flexport (36:50) Bank of North America (39:18) First Bank of the United States (39:23) Second Bank of the United States (39:24) Independent Treasury System (39:27) Jekyll Island (48:14) Cantillon Effect (49:45) Fiat money (54:28) 40% of US dollars in existence were printed in the last 12 months (59:15) Iron (1:00:12) DAI Stablecoin (1:01:11) Russia's "Gold Standard" (1:05:06) Ruble as Year’s Best-Performing Currency (1:05:10) Books Mentioned: End the Fed The Revolt of the Public (1:40) The Iliad (2:20) The Odyssey (2:21) Gödel, Escher, Bach (7:23) ( Book Episode ) ( Nat’s Book Notes ) Principles for Dealing with the Changing World Order (23:08) People Mentioned: Tommy Collison (2:12) Aristotle (3:29) Seneca (3:30) ( Book Episode ) Douglas Hofstadter (7:21) Bernie Sanders (10:00) Ben Bernanke (10:24) Tim Dillon (29:16) Warren Buffet (32:33) Show Topics: 0:32 We're stoked to announce that Adil Majid (who has joined us for episodes #7 , #33 , #34 , #35 , #71 , #74 , #75 ) is officially a co-host of Made You Think! Nat, Neil, and Adil talk about what's next for the podcast, and share the Great Books list that will be used to guide their book choices on future episodes. 4:01 Why some books have lasted so long, and why there are very few good philosophy books that have come out in the modern world. These old books were written over a long period of time, covering a wider span of history as compared to books written today. 8:32 The book we're discussing today is End the Fed by Ron Paul. One idea brought up in the book is auditing the Fed to see what exactly it is that the Fed is doing and where the money is going. We use the terms money and currency interchangeably but conceptually they’re different things. The U.S. dollar is not money, it is currency. 15:34 Paul makes a case that there should be a free market of currencies, and people should create currencies that compete with the dollar. This ties in well with cryptocurrency where there are numerous coins, all with different rules and tokenomics for each currency. Historically, it hasn’t always worked this way. 19:00 Creating stablecoins in crypto, they fail when they don’t have a clear and necessary utility. Many projects will create new stable coins pegged to the dollar, but unless there’s a specific market where that coin has utility, it falls out of circulation. 23:49 One interesting change that we’re living through is the shift of power from countries to companies. Because many of the big and powerful companies are in the US and tied to the US dollar, the dollar retains it value and utility. 27:19 The era that we grow up seems to play a role in how we view and trust the government, as well as our support level of major wars. When things feel the best is when the down trend begins. Likewise, the uptick begins when things are at their worst. 32:54 With a pessimistic attitude, we have to remember how resilient countries are. We also don’t have to solely rely on the government to fix the slump that we’re in, there are companies that can fix some of these issues we're facing. 38:22 What is the Fed, and what systems were there before it? There were 4 systems before: Bank of North America , First Bank of the United States, Second Bank of the United States, and the US Independent Treasury System. Adil gives a brief history of these systems and how it has led to where we are today. 45:13 When you think about different sectors of crypto, sound money is underrated in the US. Gold for example, Neil shares the significance of investing in gold in Indian culture. Rising inflation rates in the US. 48:14 Jekyll Island and the Cantillon effect. Whoever is closest to the money printer benefits the most. Some people are effected more than others by inflation. How banks benefit from inflation. 54:28 Funding war with Fiat vs. hard money. Once we had the ability to print unlimited amounts of money to fund war, we didn’t have to stop due to the economic cost of continuing as we may have had to before. 57:50 We keep having to print more and more money to get out of each economic downturn, and Paul predicts that at one point there will not be any amount of money to get us out, potentially leading to the collapse of the US dollar. What happens if or when we get to this point? 1:04:30 Hypothetically speaking, is there a way for the Fed to transition to having backing for the dollar? Does it have to collapse, and where are we in the current collapse? 1:08:54 Consumer debt crisis- if that all starts to collapse and unwind, the effects of that could be pretty devastating. Parallel economies. 1:11:43 Thanks for listening! Next episode, we will be covering The Revolt of the Public , so be sure to pick up a copy before our next episode! If you enjoyed this episode, let us know by leaving a review on iTunes and tell a friend. As always, let us know if you have any book recommendations! You can say hi to us on Twitter @TheRealNeilS, @adilmajid, @nateliason and share your thoughts on this episode. You can now support Made You Think using the Value-for-Value feature of Podcasting 2.0. This means you can directly tip the co-hosts in BTC with minimal transaction fees. To get started, simply download a podcast app (like Fountain or Breez) that supports Value-for-Value and send some BTC to your in-app wallet. You can then use that to support shows who have opted-in, including Made You Think! We'll be going with this direct support model moving forward, rather than ads. Thanks for listening. See you next time!0 comments0
- 76: Dreams & Consciousness: Man and His Symbols“A story told by the conscious mind has a beginning, a development, and an end, but the same is not true of a dream. Its dimensions in time and space are quite different; to understand it you must examine it from every aspect-just as you may take an unknown object in your hands and turn it over and over until you are familiar with every detail of its shape.” Welcome back to another episode of Made You Think! After years of mentioning Carl Jung and his work in previous episodes, we're excited to jump into a Jung book. Man and His Symbols explores the subconscious mind and the symbols that are revealed to us in our dreams. Is it time for us to start paying deeper attention to the messages we receive in our dreams? We cover a wide range of topics including: How the subconscious mind communicates through symbols in dreams Your shadow side, and how to acknowledge your shadow rather than silence it The effects of different drugs on the brain Nuclear vs. communal family structures and how this has changed over time Why true control is about letting go rather than trying to maintain your control And much more. Please enjoy, and make sure to follow Nat and Neil on Twitter and share your thoughts on the episode. Links from the Episode: Mentioned in the show: Plato's Chariot Allegory (32:27) Crows remember faces (35:04) Elephant intelligence (35:50) LSD and the Elephant (36:11) Milgram Experiment (38:50) MAPS (39:54) NASA spider experiment (40:58) Visakan Veerasamy's thread on quitting smoking (43:02) More Americans are seeking mental health treatment (53:38) Books mentioned: The Power of Myth (0:47) ( Book Episode) ( Nat’s Book Notes) God is Dead (11:35) Switch (31:25) The Elephant in the Brain (34:05) ( Nat's Book Notes) The Revolt of the Public (1:07:19) The Alchemy of Finance (1:18:45) People Mentioned: Carl Jung (0:36) Jordan Peterson (0:42) ( Book Episode) Sigmund Freud (5:18) Plato (14:52) Sam Harris (19:56) Chip and Dan Heath (31:20) Mircea Eliade (33:48) ( Mythic Consciousness) Kevin Simler (34:07) Robin Hanson (34:07) Andrew Yang (1:09:41) ( Episode 47, Episode 48) George Soros (1:18:50) Show notes: 1:17 In this episode, Nat and Neil are talking about Man and His Symbols by Carl Jung. The idea of the unconscious brain is of the main themes, and while we don’t have direct access to it, dreams serve as symbols to better help us understand our unconscious. 5:11 Jung argues that the symbols we see in dreams are not universal. If the same object appears in several people’s dreams, it could be interpreted differently for each person. A lot of what makes Jung's work compelling is that he’s not trying to argue things as scientific fact. Through sufficient practice and learning what dreams can represent, you can get closer to understanding how the subconscious and unsubconscious mind interact. 9:02 Believing things empirically vs. scientifically. Jung ties religion to this idea: There are many religious symbols that we may not understand directly, but there’s an empirical reason why people believe it, even if it's not scientifically backed. 11:51 We want to feel in control and not feel like there are things beyond our control. We have thoughts, likes, and ideas that are all unique to us- where do they come from? "Many people mistakenly overestimate the role of will power and think that nothing can happen to their minds that they do not decide and intend." 15:45 There’s a rational argument brought up by Jung in the book. If dreams exist, it must have some sort of evolutionary purpose and that’s how it came to be. What is that purpose of these nighttime hallucinations? There has to be a reason why certain symbols show up for people. 19:00 We’ve lost a lot of contact with our subconscious, which could be why psychedelics are so effective. If we re-established this connection with our subconscious, there wouldn’t be such a need for pharmaceutical facilitation for this connection. 21:54 Part of why we lost touch with our subconscious could be because we have so many distractions, whether in our conscious mind or surrounding environment. 25:12 When you’re always busy, you feel like you’re in control because you feel like you’re moving forward and making progress. There’s a sense of comfort feeling like you’re in control. 29:06 The multi-part mind vs. the solo persona: How does one begin to think of their mind through a different lens? Nat makes a comparison to Switch- There’s an elephant and a rider. The elephant is the subconscious and the rider is the mind who is rational and who tries to control and direct it, but there’s only so much control you have over it. 32:47 The way we think about consciousness is a newer phenomenon than we previously thought. There also wasn’t always language to describe these ideas, so it was purely symbolic. 38:25 Science and experimentation have both changed over the decades too, with more regulations put into place now. Nat and Neil talk about the affects of different drugs on the body, as also shown in some animal experiments too. 43:40 Caffeine, tobacco, nicotine, THC, alcohol, and effects of different drugs on the brain. In some cases, the delivery of the drug (smoking or vaping, for example) ends up being more harmful to your body than the substance. 49:22 Jung talks about how we have this shadow self that makes us uncomfortable. One way to deal with our shadow side is to numb it. The solution is to “turn directly towards the approaching darkness” to find what it wants from you. It’s about how you incorporate your shadow rather than silence it or hide from it, which is not a long term solution. 53:35 Therapy has become more popular now over the years. Is there a reason for this? If you’re using therapy to work through challenges in your life, it can be very helpful. It becomes unproductive when you use it as a crutch to avoid doing the harder things you know you need to do. 57:02 Parenting and fostering independence in your child. Remembering that raising them in the home is not forever, and after they move on from your care they will need to be able to help and support themselves in society. Nat and Neil discuss nuclear vs. communal families and how those dynamics are different. 1:03:24 The faith in governmental institutions is very low at this point in time, it brings to question how the future may change in terms of education and homeschooling. 1:08:41 The people that we respect the most are the ones who act like real humans, and this stands for politicians too. If a politician is willing to be personable and fully believes in their ideas, they tend to be more well-liked among the people. 1:12:28 Your shadow can be very powerful. Whatever you find you dislike in someone else may be what you actually dislike in yourself. Seeing it reflected in another person is painful because it reminds you of that trait in yourself. It's important to acknowledge the shadow rather than avoid it. 1:17:29 Thanks for listening! Make sure to pick up a copy of Man and His Symbols if you were intrigued by this episode. In future episodes, we plan to read End the Fed and The Revolt of the Public. Make sure to grab a copy and read up before the episode! If you enjoyed this episode, let us know by leaving a review on iTunes and tell a friend. As always, let us know if you have any book recommendations! You can say hi to us on Twitter @TheRealNeilS and @nateliason and share your thoughts on this episode. You can now support Made You Think using the Value-for-Value feature of Podcasting 2.0. This means you can directly tip the co-hosts in BTC with minimal transaction fees. To get started, simply download a podcast app (like Fountain or Breez ) that supports Value-for-Value and send some BTC to your in-app wallet. You can then use that to support shows who have opted-in, including Made You Think! We’ll be going with this direct support model moving forward, rather than ads. Thanks for listening. See you next time!0 comments0
- 75: Data & Control: Seeing Like A State"The despot is not a man. It is the Plan. The correct, realistic, exact plan, the one that will provide your solution once the problem has been posited clearly, in its entirety, in its indispensable harmony. This plan has been drawn up well away from the frenzy in the mayor’s office or the town hall, from the cries of the electorate or the laments of society’s victims. It has been drawn up by serene and lucid minds. It has taken account of nothing but human truths. It has ignored all current regulations, all existing usages, and channels. It has not considered whether or not it could be carried out with the constitution now in force. It is a biological creation destined for human beings and capable of realization by modern techniques." Welcome back to another episode of Made You Think! In this episode, Nat and Neil are joined by Adil Majid to discuss their key takeaways from Seeing Like a State by James C. Scott. This book discusses how states seek to make the territory more legible in order to guide its functioning. However, this planned social order often disregards vital features of any real, functioning social order. How do certain schemes to improve the human condition end up failing? We cover a wide range of topics including: Government’s desire for legibility vs. local control and power Infinite coastline paradox The importance of feedback loops and adaptability in a system How high modernism has been implemented and why those implementations have failed Connections between the book and cryptocurrency And much more. Please enjoy, and make sure to follow Nat, Neil, and Adil on Twitter and share your thoughts on the episode. Links from the Episode: Mentioned in the show: High modernism (5:58) Window tax (20:25) The Blind Cafe - San Francisco (35:32) The Infinite Coastline (43:22) Rise Roar Revolt (1:07:14) India’s Economy Hinges on the Return of Workers Who Fled to Their Villages (1:14:58) Stepn (1:31:38) Will STEPN Bring Crypto to the Masses? (1:36:23) Slate Star Codex Book Review (1:40:57) A Big Little Idea Called Legibility (1:42:25) The Intellectual Yet Idiot (1:42:36) Books Mentioned: Seeing Like a State Extreme Ownership (22:31) ( Nat’s Book Notes ) Scale (23:19) ( Book Episode ) ( Nat’s Book Notes ) Four Thousand Weeks (37:47) Merchants of Doubt (49:49) ( Nat’s Book Notes ) The Fourth Turning (1:08:55) ( Book Episode ) The Dictator’s Handbook (1:20:43) ( Book Episode ) ( Nat’s Book Notes ) The Conscience of a Conservative (1:39:43) People Mentioned: Nassim Taleb (9:06) Jocko Willink (22:32) Geoffrey West (23:19) Arthur Hayes (1:26:28) Barry Goldwater (1:39:44) Show Topics: 1:04 Today we’re joined by Adil Majid (previously in episodes #7 , #33 , #34 , #35 , #71 , #74 ) to cover Seeing Like a State by James C. Scott. There’s often an assumption that it’s the fault of the people when planned systems fail, when really it’s the fault of the governing body implementing these rigid systems. 5:58 There are a few major concepts in the book. One of these main concepts is legibility. A state needs to understand what’s happening on the ground and also needs a way to measure it. Scientific forestry as a way to produce timber more efficiently. 11:56 “Thus, plants that are valued become "crops," the species that compete with them are stigmatized as "weeds," and the insects that ingest them are stigmatized as "pests."” Scott argues that there’s more variables than any of the high modernists can understand. A high modernist cannot acknowledge that there are more variables than they know, and that they are not in full control of those variables. You can’t adjust one variable and be able to fully predict all the effects. 15:01 One of the mistakes of the high modernist desire for legibility is confusing the visual external order with internal underlying order and structure. Things can have a deep sensible underlying order that doesn’t make sense from the outside. Trees as an example; The distribution of roots, stems, and leaves is efficient in capturing light and water but if a human designed a tree, it may look real different. This same idea can be applied to cities. 17:10 The systemization of last names. 19:48 There are consequences of implementing these rigid systems. Many times, the systems put in place end up changing the exact thing that they’re supposed to regulate. 21:31 The government uses legibility to make things easier to understand, and it’s how they gain control. The amount of control you have can depend on how many levels are within your system. This ties into Extreme Ownership where the military has different levels of hierarchy, but on the ground, you get a lot of individual freedom to execute the mission. If you try to maintain strict order all the way down, things can go poorly. If you allow things to spread out and have variation at the ends, the system tends to be more resilient. 25:11 Authoritarianism is high modernism without feedback loops and democracy is high modernism with feedback loops. Adil describes metis (local knowledge) and techne (mathematical absolute truths). Things naturally float to the top, and you have to fight to keep the local knowledge at the local level. 29:10 High modernism is suitable for techne. You need to have these slightly chaotic systems where you can experiment and fail in order to better develop. The beauty of the local knowledge is that it’s experimental. Feedback loops and being able to adapt. 34:11 How did our five senses evolve to be the way they are? Our visual life is very stimulating. We lock on to things that are bright, surprising, fast-paced. Screens give us so much of that novelty that other things can appear boring to look at. 39:18 The book talks about grouping people, and they lose their individual characteristics by being dropped in the buckets based on non-representative characteristics. The map vs. the terrain. 43:08 The infinite coastline. The more you zoom into it, the more you have to add variations which makes it longer and longer. Theoretically as you zoom into something so deeply, you have an infinitely long coastline . Nat, Neil, and Adil discuss: What are the implications of higher fidelity? 46:30 High modernism works if you can convince people it’s the best way forward. The element of authoritarianism; the more you try to force people to go along with an idea the more negative pushback you’ll get. The recycling and no smoking movements. 51:37 Complex systems can get wrecked by very small changes. Some systems need every moving part in order to run efficiently, and just the absence of one part can throw the system for a loop. 55:22 Adding chips to farm equipment. What was the efficiency improvement? These highly industrialized systems can be good at increasing output, but one little ding in the system and it can fall apart. 1:03:45 India and their legibility efforts. Neil talks about the national ID card for banking and other purposes. A lot of underground stuff goes on in order for people to avoid getting their ID card. The government has gone as far as banning the largest paper currency note overnight and issuing a new one in hopes to get people to go to a bank to switch it or deposit it. 1:08:58 Would India be a country if the British had never come there? India was originally made up of hundreds of individual states, so there are many regional identities still today. 1:11:17 National languages and global languages: How do they come to be, and is it even possible to change them now that they're established? 1:14:48 During Covid, people in India who moved to cities for jobs ended up moving back to their villages as the cost of living wasn’t worth it. Within the village is their support system. This move from a legible system back to an illegible system is a good thing for the individual, but not necessarily for a government that wants more legibility. 1:17:27 Nat summarizes the core ideas of the book. Highly authoritarian states such as China and North Korea and censorship on the internet. How North Korea has been so authoritarian for so long and has been able to keep it that way. 1:21:35 Work-to-rule: This is where employees do just the minimum that is required from them and follow all regulation and safety guidelines. This in turn can lead to a decrease in productivity as workers are no longer working during weekends, breaks, etc. 1:23:31 How does this book tie back into crypto? A lot of the early crypto crowd is inherently anti-legibility. 1:32:42 Stepn is a lifestyle app that encourages its users to “move-to-earn”. Nat shares 3 ways you can tell that it’s time to exit the project so you don’t lose your investment. 1:39:20 Thanks for listening! Got any book suggestions for a future episode? Hit us up on Twitter! If you enjoyed this episode, let us know by leaving a review on iTunes and tell a friend. As always, let us know if you have any book recommendations! You can say hi to us on Twitter @TheRealNeilS and @nateliason and share your thoughts on this episode. You can now support Made You Think using the Value-for-Value feature of Podcasting 2.0. This means you can directly tip the co-hosts in BTC with minimal transaction fees. To get started, simply download a podcast app (like Fountain or Breez ) that supports Value-for-Value and send some BTC to your in-app wallet. You can then use that to support shows who have opted-in, including Made You Think! We’ll be going with this direct support model moving forward, rather than ads. Thanks for listening. See you next time!0 comments0
- 74: America Reborn: The Fourth Turning“A Fourth Turning lends people of all ages what is literally a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to heal (or destroy) the very heart of the republic.” Welcome back to another episode of Made You Think! In this episode, Nat and Neil are joined by Adil Majid to discuss their key takeaways from The Fourth Turning by William Strauss and Neil Howe. The authors uncover how history moves in cycles, or "turnings", and how our past could very well predict our future. This episode will challenge the way you have traditionally thought of time as linear, and open your eyes to cycles that are much bigger than ourselves. We cover a wide range of topics including: What is a turning, and how does each generation influence the next turning? Gold, Bitcoin, and inflation of the US Dollar The possibility of parallel systems Current events that may be leading us to the climax of the crisis era The four themes (High, Awakening, Unraveling, and Crisis) and the ways they have tied in to the events of American history And much more. Please enjoy, and make sure to follow Nat , Neil , and Adil on Twitter and share your thoughts on the episode. Links from the Episode: Mentioned in the show: Athletic Greens (1:41) Major brands freeze Youtube ads (2:15) Blinkist (2:48) Oatly: The New Coke (3:25) Bankless (5:09) Martyrmade Podcast: Thoughts on Ukraine (47:05) China and Taiwan conflict (50:14) SNL Skit: Republican or Not (1:06:19) SNL Skit: Black Jeopardy with Tom Hanks (1:06:39) The Political Compass (1:08:40) Balaji Srinivasan on Communist Capital vs. Woke Capital vs. Crypto Capital (1:09:59) Full Send Podcast with Donald Trump (1:15:34) Man enters White House with knife (1:22:56) "I support the current thing" Meme (1:25:32) What You Didn’t Know About the Apollo 11 Mission (1:28:54) Operation Warp Speed (1:32:00) Cases of Polio-like Symptoms in the Bay Area (1:35:07) Dalio's Long-Term Debt Cycle (1:38:32) Episode 7: A Crash Course in Bitcoin, Ethereum, and Cryptocurrency (1:40:12) Books Mentioned: The Fourth Turning by William Strauss and Neil Howe Dictator’s Handbook (4:23) ( Book Episode) ( Nat’s Book Notes) Sovereign Individual (6:15) ( Book Episode) ( Nat’s Book Notes) King, Warrior, Magician, Lover (32:14) ( Book Episode) The Mandibles (43:14) Seeing Like A State (54:15) ( Nat’s Book Notes) Demon in the Freezer (1:30:48) The Structure of Scientific Revolutions (1:37:35) ( Book Episode) ( Nat’s Book Notes) Alchemy of Finance (1:39:13) Denial of Death (1:40:21) ( Book Episode) ( Nat’s Book Notes) Scale (1:40:35) ( Book Episode) ( Nat’s Book Notes) Sapiens (1:40:40) ( Book Episode 1) ( Sapiens Episode 2) ( Nat's Book Notes) Homo Deus (1:40:40) ( Book Episode) ( Nat's Book Notes) People Mentioned: Neil Howe William Strauss Ray Dalio (45:36) Lyn Alden (51:04) Joe Rogan (1:14:05) Steve Bannon (1:35:35) Show Topics 0:19 Adil Majid joins the podcast today to help Nat and Neil break down The Fourth Turning by and William Strauss Neil Howe. You may remember him from some of our previous episodes ( #7, #33, #34, #35, #71), so go check those out if you haven't already! 4:39 The Fourth Turning was written around the same time as Sovereign Individual, and shares some connections as both books discuss adapting to the next phase or cycle in civilization. 9:18 The four turnings: "The High", "The Awakening", "The Unraveling" and "The Crisis". The current cycle, also known as "The Crisis", would have started around 2005, and may go on until around 2026. These turnings are such a zoomed out way of looking at periods of time, and most people that are living have not been around long enough to experience each turning. "Over the millennia, man has developed three ways of thinking about time: chaotic, cyclical, and linear. The first was the dominant view of primitive man, the second of ancient and traditional civilizations, and the third of the modern West, especially America.” 14:51 Neil talks about some of the bigger, zoomed out cycles such as the ice age cycles and climate cycles. We only see the micro-cycles because that’s our perspective on time. 15:40 In some religions such as Christianity, time is thought of as linear. Rather than accepting the cycles and seasons of the year and time, we try to fight them to create this linear constancy, because that's what we are familiar with and what we can see. 17:50 Trends in substance abuse and alcohol. The way that our parents' and grandparents’ generations treated alcohol is much different than how the younger generation treats it. This brings us to the four archetypes discussed in the book: Prophets, Nomads, Heroes, and Artists. Prophets give birth to Heroes, and vice versa while Nomads give birth to Artists, and vice versa. In theory, this will determine your archetypal behavior. 24:17 The turnings tie into the generations. As one comes of age, they influence the next turning. Based on the timeline from the book, we’ve all been in a Crisis era for most of our adult lives (if you’re around 30). What does it mean now that we’re within a few years of coming out of this period of crisis? 26:06 The "High" occurred post World War 2, between 1946-1964. This period of time was big on collectivism and community. It was not a High for everyone, however, as this was before the civil rights movement and the women’s suffrage movement. After WW2, people began creating a better life and enjoying the high after surviving the war. Their children grew up in a time of abundance, but the abundance wasn’t experienced by everyone, and this led to different civil movements as they entered the period of Awakening. 30:55 Between the Awakening and the Unraveling is a long period of decline. The Awakening is a period of challenging the morals of the previous generation, and the Unraveling is putting those things into practice. From there, it then leads to the period of Crisis. 34:36 We see this conflict today where older Gen Z and Millennials are growing up with student loan debt. The previous generation grew up in a period of abundance off the High of post WW2, which paved the way for that generation to live a comfortable life. 38:28 Where did the Crisis start? Nat, Neil, and Adil discuss several events such as 9/11, the Iraq war, and the 2007 financial crisis that may be marked as the start of the Crisis. 45:26 Not every Fourth Turning has to end in war, but every previous one has ended in a war, thus why the conflict in Russia/Ukraine is so notable, as well as conflict between China and Taiwan. 50:33 Gold, Bitcoin, and inflation. Which country could tip the scale? 55:03 Preparing for the Fourth Turning. Neil makes a connection to The Mandibles, where if the Government ever decides to cease wealth or shut down the stock market, the value that we currently hold in the market will decrease significantly, although we may have thought it was safe. “Really know where your money is.” 1:00:28 Adil describes the technological arms race that’s happening. Ideas shifting in political parties even within the past decade. 1:09:55 Woke capital, communist capital, and crypto capital. Is there a possibility for parallel systems where one area of the country/world may align with one ideology and another area aligns with another approach? The Internet, as an example. 1:16:59 Another symptom of the crisis mentality is mistrust of organizations that were typically trusted by previous generations. 1:21:09 The storming of the Capital on January 6th. This had the potential to be a climax moment, but didn’t end up turning into something massive. 1:25:29 This year's Oscars brought a shared moment between everyone. Most things you see in the media will produce two total opposite reactions, whereas in this particular moment, the experience and reaction was very much the same across the board. These shared moments create a sense of unity. 1:35:16 This book is controversial, partly because the concepts in this book are hard to prove as factual. It’s comfortable to think we have everything figured out, without challenging anything or institutions. 1:38:41 Thanks for listening! Make sure to grab a copy of the next book we will be covering, Man and His Symbols by Carl Jung. Stay tuned, as Adil will be back for another future episode where we discuss Seeing Like A State. If you enjoyed this episode, let us know by leaving a review on iTunes and tell a friend. As always, let us know if you have any book recommendations! You can say hi to us on Twitter @TheRealNeilS and @nateliason and share your thoughts on this episode. You can now support Made You Think using the Value-for-Value feature of Podcasting 2.0. This means you can directly tip the co-hosts in BTC with minimal transaction fees. To get started, simply download a podcast app (like Fountain or Breez ) that supports Value-for-Value and send some BTC to your in-app wallet. You can then use that to support shows who have opted-in, including Made You Think! We’ll be going with this direct support model moving forward, rather than ads. Thanks for listening. See you next time!0 comments0
- 73: What is Science? The Structure of Scientific Revolutions“The man who is striving to solve a problem defined by existing knowledge and technique is not, however, just looking around. He knows what he wants to achieve, and he designs his instruments and directs his thoughts accordingly. Unanticipated novelty, the new discovery, can emerge only to the extent that his anticipations about nature and his instruments prove wrong. . . . There is no other effective way in which discoveries might be generated.” Welcome back to another episode of Made You Think! In this episode, Nat and Neil discuss their key takeaways from The Structure of Scientific Revolutions by Thomas Kuhn. While the book is geared towards an academic audience, a lot of interesting ideas were brought up in terms of scientific progress, where Kuhn argues that science is anything but linear. We cover a wide range of topics including: Paradigm shifts in science (and other areas, too!) What is normal science, and how does it differ from paradigm-shifting science? Connections between science, religion, and politics The direction and timing of inventions over time How sciencing everything may lead to negative outcomes And much more. Please enjoy, and make sure to follow Nat and Neil on Twitter and share your thoughts on the episode. Links from the Episode: Mentioned in the show: Copernican system (11:20) Monday Medley (11:56) The Joe Rogan Experience (18:03) Nat’s SS and Medicare tweet (20:50) Burton Oil (29:24) Neil’s tweet on rationalists (35:20) Dancing Gorilla experiment (47:07) Bobbie formula (53:15) Obesity rates in Mexico (57:34) WTF Happened in 1971? (58:22) Metamask (1:00:28) Rainbow Wallet (1:00:29) Outside the System (1:03:46) (Check out Neil's new podcast!) Fountain (1:03:50) Lightning Network (1:04:30) What Viagra was originally used for (1:10:56) Tesla's vision of wireless energy (1:15:21) Riverside (1:23:40) Books Mentioned: The Structure of Scientific Revolutions ( Nat's Book Notes) Gödel, Escher, Bach (0:58) ( Book Episode) ( Nat's Book Notes) Finite and Infinite Games (3:23) ( Book Episode) ( Nat's Book Notes) Happy Accidents (3:37) ( Book Episode) ( Nat's Book Notes) King, Warrior, Magician, Lover (28:53) ( Book Episode) The Dictator’s Handbook (41:03) ( Book Episode) ( Nat's Book Notes) Merchants of Doubt (41:56) ( Book Episode) ( Nat's Book Notes) Energy and Civilization (42:56) ( Book Episode) ( Nat's Book Notes) The Three-Body Problem (1:20:50) ( Nat's Book Notes) The Martian (1:21:21) ( Nat's Book Notes) Hail Mary (1:21:27) Seeing Like a State (1:24:19) ( Nat's Book Notes) Infinite Jest (1:24:44) ( Book Episode I) ( Book Episode II) ( Nat's Book Notes) People Mentioned: Malcolm Gladwell (2:35) Albert Einstein (6:45) Isaac Newton (14:53) Nicolaus Copernicus (14:53) Werner Heisenburg (14:56) Nassim Taleb (24:44) Al Gore (28:36) George Bush (28:39) Joe Biden (28:56) Nikola Tesla (1:14:59) Andy Weir (1:21:23) Adil Majid (1:24:12) Show Topics: 0:43 Today, Nat and Neil dive into their takeaways from The Structure of Scientific Revolutions by Thomas Kuhn. The phrase "paradigm shift" was coined by Thomas Kuhn and used throughout the book to describe fundamental changes in underlying assumptions. 4:47 Kuhn argues that science doesn’t progress linearly, it goes through cycles. There are foundational truths and beliefs that current science is being built on, and when those beliefs crack, we have to establish new ones. It doesn’t mean the old ideas were unscientific, but perhaps insufficient or incomplete. 8:01 Neil applies the 'map vs. territory' analogy. Territory is the real natural world, and every theory and paradigm we test out is the map. 11:54 The book talks about normal science as trying to solve a puzzle. When you buy a jigsaw puzzle, you know what the picture looks like and that all pieces will fit together somehow. In the same way, theories of experiments have already predicted what the results of your experiment should be, you’re just running the experiment to confirm it. Paradigm shifts are so rare and accidental because most of science is filling in gaps of the current paradigm, as that's also where the funding is. "The scientific enterprise as a whole does from time to time prove useful, open up new territory, display order, and test long-accepted belief. Nevertheless, the individual engaged on a normal research problem is almost never doing any one of these things." 15:20 What are the things in science today that feel like they might be invented to explain the anomalies in the current paradigm? Dark matter and gravity for example. 17:59 There aren’t enough debates on science, and it’s important to ask the question WHY to better understand the underlying assumptions. If you disagree with one of the provided assumptions, you can challenge it. 22:09 The book explains how science is an ever-evolving process that requires challenging the current assumptions in the paradigm. Asking questions is the scientific thing to do. We can have conflicting paradigms and ideas, and use those to get an accurate view of the world, but obviously nothing is perfect. 25:50 Over time, science has become more politicized. Global warming rebranded into climate change. 30:31 Most issues are never completely binary like they're positioned to be. The abortion debate for example. There are 2 different paradigms with completely different underlying assumptions: 1) Individual choice is more important than when life begins and 2) Life begins at conception and it’s not an individual choice type of thing. 35:03 Every choice has a tradeoff. One problem in politics is when candidates aren’t upfront about the tradeoffs of a certain choice or pretend that there isn’t any, which makes it harder to believe them. Nat and Neil talk about the start of Covid with the stay-at-home orders and wearing a mask. 39:08 Linking to Dictator’s Handbook ( episode here), it is advantageous for politicians to say problems are more urgent and pressing than they are because you can use that to retain power and influence. 43:41 Differences in generations and the trust in scientists. Younger generations are starting to suffer the consequences of explorations like combining science with food. Does science need to be added to everything? 46:41 People find what they’re looking for. If you go in with a set of beliefs, you won’t be looking for anything that confirms against your beliefs, in fact you may discard anything that argues against what you think is right without acknowledging the other set of values. 51:20 What's a Made You Think episode without a tangent? Nat and Neil talk about the vaccine/Autism debate. With dietary changes and other factors in the first year of a child’s life, why are some scientists so set on vaccines being connected to Autism? 58:22 Paradigm shifts aren’t in science only. Nat and Neil talk about paradigm shifts in technology, Web3, single sign-on, and more. 1:05:29 A new paradigm of community ownership, fundraising, and access to capital arose as NFTs became bigger. There are now new standards for membership, and how we can own music, art, etc. 1:07:05 Paradigms are like little blips on the map, and occasionally one will present a lot of solutions to existing problems. The same things happens in both science and technology. 1:11:46 Normal science vs. paradigm-shifting science. What would have been figured out anyway vs. what was truly a leap forward. 1:14:44 The direction and timing of different inventions. There are some things that develop slowly for years but then have a period of rapid development because the underlying technology catches up. Are there things that we are technologically ready for now but just haven't come up with yet? 1:19:28 Inversely, there are also inventions where the timing wasn’t dependent on the underlying technology. 1:23:30 Thanks for listening! If you want to read ahead before our next episode, make sure to pick up a copy of The Fourth Turning by William Strauss and Neil Howe. If you enjoyed this episode, let us know by leaving a review on iTunes and tell a friend. As always, let us know if you have any book recommendations! You can say hi to us on Twitter @TheRealNeilS and @nateliason and share your thoughts on this episode. You can now support Made You Think using the Value-for-Value feature of Podcasting 2.0. This means you can directly tip the co-hosts in BTC with minimal transaction fees. To get started, simply download a podcast app (like Fountain or Breez ) that supports Value-for-Value and send some BTC to your in-app wallet. You can then use that to support shows who have opted-in, including Made You Think! We’ll be going with this direct support model moving forward, rather than ads. Thanks for listening. See you next time!0 comments0
- 72: The Masculine Psyche: King, Warrior, Magician, Lover“It can be said that life's perhaps most fundamental dynamic is the attempt to move from a lower form of experience and consciousness to a higher (or deeper) level of consciousness.” In this episode of Made You Think, Nat and Neil discuss their key takeaways from King, Warrior, Magician, Lover by Robert Moore and Douglas Gillette. This book presents the 4 archetypes of manhood, and explores what undeveloped masculinity looks like in the form of the archetype Shadows. In this episode of Made You Think, we cover a wide range of topics including: The differences in Male vs. Female adulthood initiation King and Tyrant energy in politicians The rise in adult male virginity in the past decade The Shadows of each of the 4 archetypes Underdeveloped masculinity (Otherwise known as Boy psychology) And much more. Please enjoy, and make sure to follow Nat and Neil on Twitter and share your thoughts on the episode. Links from the Episode: Mentioned in the Show: Maasai Ritual (15:59) The Business of Being Born (30:53) Tonic Masculinity - Dr. Cam Sepah (42:03) Manager vs. Leader (47:15) Warrior Genes (59:18) Adult male virginity stats (1:08:40) Filtering by height on Bumble (1:09:21) FDA tweet on national cereal day (1:14:21) Colin Powell's 40-70 rule (1:40:53) OKCupid blog archive (1:47:14) SolPay (1:50:15) Books Mentioned: King, Warrior, Magician, Lover The Way of the Superior Man (1:07) ( Nat's Book Notes) 12 Rules for Life (1:57) ( Book Episode) ( Nat's Book Notes) The Laws of Human Natur e (2:10) ( Book Episode) Man and His Symbols (2:14) The Fourth Turning (11:09) The Power of Myth (15:10) ( Book Episode) ( Nat's Book Notes) Escape from Freedom (22:13) ( Book Episode) ( Nat's Book Notes) The Dictator’s Handbook (57:01) ( Book Episode) ( Nat's Book Notes) Mate (1:06:06) ( Nat's Book Notes) Models (1:06:08) ( Nat's Book Notes) What Got You Here Won’t Get You There (1:17:08) Extreme Ownership (1:23:48) ( Nat's Book Notes) The Alchemy of Finance (1:39:20) Flow (1:43:43) Thinking, Fast and Slow (1:44:23) Layered Money (1:53:46) People Mentioned: David Deida (1:09) Joseph Campbell (2:01) Robert Greene (2:07) Carl Jung (2:14) Paul Millerd (2:34) Robert Moore (5:17) Douglas Gillette (5:17) Tucker Max (31:00) Dr. Cam Sepah (42:01) Jordan Peterson (52:44) NLE Choppa (1:05:49) Mark Manson (1:06:08) James Altucher (1:28:05) Tony Robbins (1:29:47) Show Topics: 0:30 In today's episode, Nat and Neil cover the book King, Warrior, Magician, Lover by Robert Moore and Douglas Gillette. This is the first book episode since Episode 66 with just Nat and Neil (featuring pop-ins from Pepper and Baby Eliason!). 5:12 King, Warrior, Magician, Lover provides a blend of psychology and ancient tradition. Moore and Gillette define four male archetypes that stand out through history, as well as the shadow forms of each of the archetypes. 7:52 Masculinity doesn’t mean these ideas are just for men; it’s a spectrum. It's just as beneficial for women to know and understand these archetypes and their shadows, too. 10:15 Knowing all forms of these archetypes, including the shadow form, can allow you to better adapt as an adult. The book's definition of patriarchy: "In our view, patriarchy is not the expression of deep and rooted masculinity, for truly deep and rooted masculinity is not abusive. Patriarchy is the expression of the immature masculine. It is the expression of Boy psychology, and, in part, the shadow—or crazy—side of masculinity. It expresses the stunted masculine, fixated at immature levels." 14:12 Boy psychology. A lot of what may be considered toxic masculinity today is what the book would call underdeveloped masculinity, or Boy psychology. Today, there seems to be a lack of societal rituals or clear transitions that take you from your boy stage to your man stage. In essence, your Boy ego has to die for your Adult ego to be created, it's not clear where that happens. 18:57 During your teenage years, you’re somewhat psychologically competent to be an adult, but with so many restrictions on schooling, parenting, etc. it doesn't allow a lot of freedom to explore independence. It also creates a household struggle because there’s not much externally to struggle against. If you’re not being psychologically stimulated and challenged outside of the home, you may create that challenge in the form of conflict within your home. For many, the desire for challenge and quest is met through sports or other extra curricular activities. 22:04 School doesn’t solve this desire for challenge, it may arguably make it worse. The struggle teens face with school isn’t a struggle that is meaningful or fulfilling. In school, your work is mainly about following a rubric or certain criteria, which limits creativity and fits students into a box. It’s not until college where young adults are given more autonomy and responsibility. Even then, many students still fit themselves into the box that they think they’re supposed to be in. 27:51 The difference between male adulthood initiation and female adulthood initiation. There are completely different experiences between men and women who become first-time parents, because women are the ones carrying the baby and experiencing all that comes with it. 30:30 It can be argued that in some ways, modernity is destroying the womanhood initiation ritual around giving birth. The birthing industry in hospitals isn’t designed around creating the best experience for the mother or retaining the sacredness of the experience. 36:38 Being more aware of environmental factors, diet, sunlight risks, etc. once you’re a parent. 40:22"They are all boys pretending to be men. They got that way honestly, because nobody showed them what a mature man is like. Their kind of “manhood” is a pretense to manhood that goes largely undetected as such by most of us. We are continually mistaking this man’s controlling, threatening, and hostile behaviors for strength. In reality, he is showing an underlying extreme vulnerability and weakness, the vulnerability of the wounded boy." This quote gives insight on the wounded boy mentality, similar to what Nat and Neil reference a high-chair tyrant. 42:44 Nat and Neil introduce the 4 archetypes: King, Warrior, Magician and Lover. King energy in many ways is father energy. Being a good King isn’t about being a ruler, it’s about being a good leader and being able to provide strength and security. Kids want a noble father figure to look up to in order to see a sense of security and leadership. When they don’t have that, they don’t feel as secure within the family unit. 47:49 King energy is feeling present, centered, and in control. The inverse of King is similar to a Tyrant, who is never satisfied. The Tyrant is always looking for more material things, more work, and worries nonstop. 51:48 We all have King energy in us, and when you don’t think you can rely on your own King energy, you form a dependency on someone else for that security instead. As a child, your father should be the source of the King energy, and manhood is when you begin develop your own King energy internally. 54:01 King energy in politics. On some level, the sense of hopelessness as civilians may come from a lack of King energy in politicians. Not many leaders are strong in their sense of King energy, but many give the T yrant energy. King energy in political leaders fosters a sense of security and hope. 58:25 Warrior energy. Warrior instinct is a part of us in our psychology. You need to embrace your Warrior energy so the shadow side isn't manifested. Nat and Neil talk about warrior genes. How to channel your Warrior energy for good uses. 1:02:08 How do you measure if you’re the best you can be? It’s hard to test that. There's physical combat, physical challenges, intellectual challenges, but there’s not much else to accurately measure this. If you have weak Warrior energy, everything is happening to you and you feel like nothing ever goes right. With positive Warrior energy, you’re in control and choosing your fate. " The warrior is always alert. He is always awake. He is never sleeping through life. He knows how to focus his mind and his body. He is what the samurai called “mindful.” He is a “hunter” in the Native American tradition." 1:06:05 The choice of letting a situation or environment rule you can evoke the shadow version of these archetypes. Inversely, if you maintain control of your situation, you can harness the proactive and positive versions of these personalities. Sometimes you have to do what’s hard to live a fuller life, and not settle for the easier choices that end up being unhealthy for you. 1:08:32 The rise in male virginity, especially since 2008. Is it due to dating apps and advance in technology? 1:15:04 Shadow Warrior energy can appear similar to an obsessive-compulsive personality. This is where you overcommit and take on too many challenges. The compulsive personality digs in and works harder rather than taking a step back when faced with danger signs. The healthy Warrior knows what to destroy in order to create. 1:20:16 Magician archetype: There’s a duality in the Magician and Warrior archetypes because the Warrior is the one who acts and implements while the Magician is the thinker and the planner. It pays to have a healthy balance of both archetypes. 1:23:45 A good leader is able to step back and observe so the best decisions can be made. If you’re too high on Warrior energy without the Magician energy, you may be doing too much action with little to no thought. And vice versa. 1:27:02 Using access to special knowledge for selfish purposes or for power, similar to negative gurus with overpriced content. 1:34:25 The Manipulator is the shadow side of the Magician. They always seek to control their experience and how others perceive them. “Whenever we are detached, unrelated, and withholding what we know could help others, whenever we use our knowledge as a weapon to belittle and control others or to bolster our status or wealth at others’ expense, we are identified with the Shadow Magician as Manipulator. We are doing black magic, damaging ourselves as well as those who could benefit from our wisdom.” 1:37:29 Lover archetype, perhaps the most spiritual one. The Lover is very creative, and is in touch with their premonitions or intuitions about people, situations, or their future. 1:40:53 A lot of people want to have 100% of the information before making a decision, but it can take too long to have all of the information. If you have 40-70% of the information needed to make a decision you should make the decision. Any less than that, you may not make a good choice. 1:44:48 The Addict is the inverse to the Lover. The Addict rides on the ultimate and continuous high, adventure to adventure. Addictive behavior. 1:48:21 Thanks for listening! If you want to read ahead before our next episode, make sure to pick up a copy of The Fourth Turning by William Strauss and Neil Howe. If you enjoyed this episode, let us know by leaving a review on iTunes and tell a friend. As always, let us know if you have any book recommendations! You can say hi to us on Twitter @TheRealNeilS and @nateliason and share your thoughts on this episode. You can now support Made You Think using the Value-for-Value feature of Podcasting 2.0. This means you can directly tip the co-hosts in BTC with minimal transaction fees. To get started, simply download a podcast app (like Fountain or Breez ) that supports Value-for-Value and send some BTC to your in-app wallet. You can then use that to support shows who have opted-in, including Made You Think! We'll be going with this direct support model moving forward, rather than ads. Thanks for listening. See you next time!0 comments0
- Made You Think Feb 25 · 2h 71: Taking and Keeping Power: The Dictator's Handbook“Democracies are not lucky. They do not attract civic-minded leaders by chance. Rather, they attract survival-oriented leaders who understand that, given their dependence on many essentials, they can only come to and stay in power if they figure out the right basket of public goods to provide.” In this episode of Made You Think, Nat and Neil are joined by Adil Majid to discuss their key takeaways from The Dictator's Handbook by Bruce Bueno de Mesquita. The Dictator's Handbook delivers five rules for staying in power and succeeding within the political system. In this episode of Made You Think, we cover a wide range of topics including: How dictators get in power and stay in power The Selectorate theory Taxation and why leaders are so fond of taxes FIFA, Olympics, and giving bribes for more power Decentralized finance as an alternative to the current financial system And much more. Please enjoy, and make sure to follow Nat , Neil , and Adil on Twitter and share your thoughts on the episode. Links from the Episode Mentioned in the Show Episode 7: A Crash Course in Bitcoin, Ethereum, and Cryptocurrency (0:43) Episode 33: An Animal of No Significance: Sapiens by Yuval Noah Harari – Part I (1:25) Episode 34: Money, Power, and God: Sapiens by Yuval Noah Harari – Part II (1:40) Selectorate theory (4:57) Assets of the Federal Reserve (22:00) Ba'ath Party; Saddam Hussein (29:05) Caliphate (54:11) Arab Spring (1:11:10) Democracy Index 2017 (1:12:28) ConstitutionDAO (1:16:01) Corruption in FIFA (1:15:43) Bribing in Olympics (1:15:43) Marijuana episode (1:24:27) A Tale of Two Talebs (1:33:19) Ledger (1:59:31) Books Mentioned The 48 Laws of Power (2:09) ( Nat’s Book Notes) The Sovereign Individual (4:36) ( Book Episode) ( Nat's Book Notes) Seeing Like a State (4:37) ( Nat's Book Notes) Antifragile (1:31:38) ( Book Episode) ( Nat's Book Notes) The Bitcoin Standard (1:34:26) People Mentioned Robert Mugabe (10:32) Elizabeth Warren (12:49) Bernie Sanders (12:50) Elon Musk (13:10) Ron DeSantis (15:13) Donald Trump (15:42) Machiavelli (23:45) Fidel Castro (41:41) Che Guevara (41:47) Rasputin (42:48) Abdel Fattah el-Sisi (1:11:40) Julias Caesar (1:21:25) Nassim Taleb (1:32:23) Gary Vaynerchuk (1:33:53) Show Notes 1:10 Today we are joined by Adil Majid. You may remember him from some of our previous episodes ( #7, #33, #34). Today’s book is the Dictator’s Handbook, a book that shares the rules of the game in politics exactly how it is. What we think is good or bad in politics may be the exact opposite. 3:27 Relying on a larger coalition of individuals results in a more equitable and just system. How this idea ties in with decentralized finance. 4:57 Adil talks about the Selectorate theory and the 3 different groups: the nominal selectorate, the real selectorate, and the winning coalition. The primary goal of a leader is to stay in power and to do this, they must keep the support from members of the winning coalition. 9:59 The way our voting system in the U.S. narrows who's vote counts. Politicians can play the game of staying in power by understanding which votes they need. "When addressing politics, we must accustom ourselves to think and speak about the actions and interests of specific, named leaders rather than thinking and talking about fuzzy ideas like the national interest, the common good, and the general welfare. Once we think about what helps leaders come to and stay in power, we will also begin to see how to fix politics. Politics, like all of life, is about individuals, each motivated to do what is good for them, not what is good for others.” To stay in power, politicians are not making decisions about general welfare and the common good. Bueno de Mesquita notes that it's all about what's good for them, not for us. 12:33 This brings up the question, why do politicians seem to believe things so extremely? An outside-in approach: A candidate needs to appeal to the extreme then come back to the middle and more neutral voters to win a general election. 18:25 Questionable social media sprees from politicians, and how it could be a tool for covering something up. Inflation and stimulus checks. 24:42 There are five basic rules leaders can use to succeed in any system. Rule 1: Keep your winning coalition as small as possible. Having a small coalition is to your advantage in taking and keeping power. There are fewer people to keep happy, and keeping them happy is a key to staying in power. 30:50 There are so many institutions in government but not all of them are necessary in keeping and maintaining power. Corruption as an essential political tool. "The causal ties run both ways: power leads to corruption and corruption leads to power." 33:59 Informational asymmetry between members of the winning coalition and the nominal electorate. Transparency within companies; there's certain information that is only shared with the leaders that is not available to all within the company. 37:38 Rule 2: Keep your nominal selectorate as large as possible. Nat, Neil, and Adil discuss rigged elections. These are a periodic reminder that everyone is replaceable. The way to thrive in a dictatorship is not to be the dictator himself, but to be a highly irreplaceable member of the winning coalition. It’s tough to be irreplaceable, as you also don’t want to become a threat. 43:30 Once you accumulate power, it’s all about keeping power. It’s chaotic to transition from one leader to the next. Fratricide is the act of killing one's brother. How this has been seen in history before as well as in animal behavior. 45:32 Rule 3: Control the flow of revenue. If your leader doesn't know how to make money and increase wealth for your country, it's essential that they know who to pay to stay in power. Example: Mugabe from Zimbabwe stayed in power despite starvation and epidemics throughout the country. It was less about what happens to the people, as long as the army was paid. “When debt exceeds the ability to pay, the problem for a leader is not so much that good public works must be cut back, but rather that the incumbent doesn’t have the resources necessary to purchase political loyalty from key backers." 49:25 Taxation: Maximize taxation while maintaining productivity if you’re an autocratic country with no natural resources. Taxes on crypto in other countries vs. the U.S. 54:02 “It seems that many non-Muslims, realizing that they could reduce the tax collectors’ reach by becoming Muslim, put their religious beliefs aside and converted." Some religious empires collected taxes instead of direct rule. There was also tax farming where central authority bids on the taxes from different regions, and kept some of the collected tax for their own use. 58:17 Official exchange rates vs. street rates. The street rates would essentially be a better deal because the government was taking a cut out of the official exchange rates. This idea connects again with cryptocurrency where if a transaction isn’t traceable by the government, it can be a good deal for everyone involved. 1:04:20"Rule 4: Pay your key supporters just enough to keep them loyal." Dichotomy in the lives of people in the same country, Saudi Arabia as an example. Some people live very wealthy, whereas some areas of the country don’t even have paved roads. Within the same country are extremely different ways of living. 1:08:54 A dictatorship is so much easier to control than a democracy when it comes to foreign aid. They’re no longer under American control when they become a democracy. 1:12:58 Relationship between military and government in other countries. 1:14:56"Rule 5: Don’t take money out of your supporter’s pockets to make the people’s lives better." Bribes in FIFA and the Olympics. Buying votes to win hosting rights for your country. 1:20:19 Dictators who try to support the people at the expense of their coalition often found themselves on the losing end. “Julius Caesar’s mistake was to help the people at the expense of his backers and this too cost him his life." 1:23:25 The progression of making marijuana legal in the states. States have power in some large topics such as marijuana legalization and abortion where one state may create laws in complete opposite of another state. 1:29:10 Political divide these days can often appear less about the individual policies and more about whether it should be a Federal or State issue. 1:32:01 Nassim Taleb tangent, and the story of how Nat got blocked on Twitter. 1:37:00 Getting sick as a dictator. Those who depend on you are no longer secure, so they’re looking for someone else. It's important to have a succession plan lined up that your key supporters believe in. They don't want their future to come into question. 1:41:40 The monarchy in England and other European countries, and the way that they’re born into power. 1:45:28 The more democratic a group is, the weaker it is. If it’s weak, slow, and requires a lot of consensus, there is less power. Same goes for companies. 1:50:13 Crypto and selectorate theory. Some tokens are very autocratic while some are very community-owned and community-driven. Low exit costs in crypto, if you don’t like what you see, you can take your money and go elsewhere. 1:59:40 Thanks for listening! Adil will be back in a future episode where we cover Seeing Like a State. If you enjoyed this episode, let us know by leaving a review on iTunes and tell a friend. As always, let us know if you have any book recommendations! You can say hi to us on Twitter @TheRealNeilS and @nateliason and share your thoughts on this episode. You can now support Made You Think using the Value-for-Value feature of Podcasting 2.0. This means you can directly tip the co-hosts in BTC with minimal transaction fees. To get started, simply download a podcast app (like Fountain or Breez ) that supports Value-for-Value and send some BTC to your in-app wallet. You can then use that to support shows who have opted-in, including Made You Think! We'll be going with this direct support model moving forward, rather than ads. Thanks for listening. See you next time!0 comments0
- 70: Meaning and Toil: Escape from Freedom by Erich Fromm"The most beautiful as well as the most ugly inclinations of man are not part of a fixed and biologically given human nature, but result from the social process which creates man. In other words, society has not only a suppressing function—although it has that too—but it has also a creative function. Man’s nature, his passions, and anxieties are a cultural product; as a matter of fact, man himself is the most important creation and achievement of the continuous human effort, the record of which we call history." In this episode of Made You Think, Nat and Neil are joined by Paul Millerd to discuss their key takeaways from Escape from Freedom by Erich Fromm. In this book, Fromm makes a connection between the rise of capitalism to the beginning of man's conflict with the modern sense of freedom. In this episode of Made You Think, w e cover a wide range of topics including: Positive freedom and negative freedom Finding work that is internally motivating rather than work that is thrust upon you How the economic system impacts our psychology Comparison: Why it's easy to compare your progress and accomplishments to others' The two-fold approach on the pursuit of power And much more. Please enjoy, and make sure to follow Nat, Neil, and Paul on Twitter and share your thoughts on the episode. Links from the Episode Mentioned in the Show Episode 69: The Quest of the Simple Life (6:19) Mixergy (24:33) 2Pac video (33:04) Episode 66: Making the Navalmanack (36:07) Principal of 2 Schools (48:26) Books Mentioned Escape From Freedom ( Nat's Book Notes) Awaken the Giant Within (9:47) ( Nat’s Book Notes) The Art of Loving (27:02) Amusing Ourselves to Death (35:16) ( Book Episode) ( Nat's Book Notes) Finite and Infinite Games (38:14) ( Book Episode) ( Nat's Book Notes) The Almanack of Naval Ravikant (42:12) ( Book Episode) ( Nat's Book Notes) The Beginning of Infinity (52:10) ( Book Episode) ( Nat's Book Notes) The Structure of Scientific Revolutions (53:00) The Pathless Path (58:15) King, Warrior, Magician, Lover (1:12:37) The Dictator’s Handbook (12:40:17) People Mentioned Tony Robbins (9:49) Cal Newport (36:51) David Perell (59:40) Tiago Forte (59:41) Tim Ferris s (1:01:53) David Foster Wallace (1:03:26) Scott Alexander (1:07:20) Show Notes 0:34 Today we are joined by Paul Millerd, long-time MYT listener and author of The Pathless Path. Paul touches on the ideas of negative freedom and positive freedom that were discussed in the book, and shares how those ideas have fit into his story over the past few years. 4:19 A lot of what we think that we want is not what we actually want. Paul shares the underlying reasons of why he left his high-paying job years ago upon reflecting on the principles that were most important to him. "All our energy is spent for the purpose of getting what we want, and most people never question the premise of this activity: that they know their true wants. They do not stop to think whether the aims they are pursuing are something they themselves want." Many people go through their life going through the motions without actually reflecting on what is most important to them. 11:06 Nat talks about his experience living off of passive income in South America. While complete freedom from obligation sounds attractive, there’s an importance in having something meaningful to work towards. 16:45"Capitalism not only freed man from traditional bonds, but it also contributed tremendously to the positive freedom, to the growth of an active, critical, and responsible self." In Fromm's time, your job was your primary identity. With the growth of business and capitalism, more options are created on what you can be. Some people cling onto what they know because it's stable and secure, and the idea of having so many options in front of them creates fear. Others lean into that freedom of having more possibilities and transcend their status in life. 20:29 Insecurity coming from a loss of identity and place in the world. When you separate yourself from your regular job, it can be challenging to understand your identity. People tend to ask more questions to those who aren’t in a typical job but rather control their own schedule. 25:27 Having individuals or influences in your life. These days many people find these influences through media. It’s helpful to have examples out there of people who have taken a path less traveled and strayed from norms. Nat, Neil, and Paul discuss another one of Fromm's Books: The Art of Loving. Love is what we’re all aiming for, and there are many ways we can arrive at love. One way is work. It gives us a connectedness to self and the world. 29:29 When you find things that bring you meaning, double down on those. Lean into those things that bring you meaning and embrace it. While there is much less toil now than when the book was written, we must recognize the gap that leaves. Your mind has so much time to think, and too much time to think can lead you to feel empty. 31:20 Fromm begins to hit on mindfulness. "Man misses the only satisfaction that can give him real happiness—the experience of the activity of the present moment—and chases after a phantom that leaves him disappointed as soon as he believes he has caught it—the illusory happiness called success." Finding things that are internally motivating that resonates with you vs. doing things that are thrust upon you by others or society. Living in the present moment, not living for the future state. It can be hard to overcome our compulsion to immediately fill gaps in our day with our phones or other stimulation. 34:29 How the economic system is impacting our psychology. Fromm calls on people to be aware of it. As humans, we take in as much information as we can all the time, it’s hard to turn it off. There’s reward in being online and having your presence online, but it also consumes your time. Your psychology mixed with the psychology you get from the system is evolving together, this can be a barrier to leaning into the positive vision of freedom. 38:11 Neil talks about the connection with Finite and Infinite Games. Whether it’s the self-employment game, crypto, or other, there’s so many “games” you can play. Where you get caught is if you start thinking that game is reality. If you remember that it’s a game, then that’s all it is. It can still add meaning and enjoyment to your life. 42:30 The alternate path of being a creator isn’t always the best option for everyone. Pseudo-freedom. Not everyone is wired the same way. The development of remote work in the past decade. It provides a new way to relate to your work and for some, is more comfortable and less restricting. 46:53 Is there an alternative metric to tracking work aside from tracking hours? How to measure outcomes at work. "Life has ceased to be lived in a closed world the center of which was man; the world has become limitless and the same time threatening. By losing his fixed place in a closed world man loses the answer to the meaning of his life; the result is that doubt has befallen him concerning himself and the aim of life." 49:58 The world has changed so much in the past 150 years from many different standpoints, including technology and what the average day-to-day looks like. Even within the past few decades along, there has been so much change. Will things continue to evolve rapidly or will it level out? 54:40 When things change, how is it decided what will change? We may think the world will change in one way but it’s unpredictable the way it would actually go. 1:00:15 When comparing yourself to others, you have to remember to play your own game. What others do may fit them better than it will fit you. Even those who you compare yourself to surely has someone that they compare themselves to. 1:05:01 It’s impossible to be good at everything, and to have it all. There are some things you can’t have simultaneously. Do you truly want all these things or are you just conditioned to want it? 1:08:16 The pursuit of power, and the two-fold approach. 1:12:22 When the reality we want in our mind isn’t the story that’s actively happening, it can bring us anxiety. Deciding if what you want is worth the costs you pay to get there. 1:16:19 Thank you for listening! Make sure to pick up a copy of Dictator’s Handbook and King, Warrior, Magician, Lover to follow along before our next episodes. If you enjoyed this episode, let us know by leaving a review on iTunes and tell a friend. As always, let us know if you have any book recommendations! You can say hi to us on Twitter @TheRealNeilS and @nateliason and share your thoughts on this episode. You can now support Made You Think using the Value-for-Value feature of Podcasting 2.0. This means you can directly tip the co-hosts in BTC with minimal transaction fees. To get started, simply download a podcast app (like Fountain or Breez) that supports Value-for-Value and send some BTC to your in-app wallet. You can then use that to support shows who have opted-in, including Made You Think! We'll be going with this direct support model moving forward, rather than ads. Thanks for listening. See you next time!0 comments0
- 69: Escape Modernity: The Quest of the Simple Life by William Dawson"To feel that it is bliss to be alive, health alone is needed. And by health I mean not the absence of physical ailment or disease, but a high condition of vitality. This the country gave me; this the town denied me. The only question was then, at what rate did I value the boon?" In this episode of Made You Think, Nat and Neil are joined by Andrew Lynch to discuss their key takeaways from The Quest of the Simple Life by William Dawson. The setting takes place in London in the early 1900s, and Dawson takes us through his reflections and insights as he moves from the city to the countryside to fulfill his desire of living a more simple life. We cover a wide range of topics including: • Finding value in the work you do • How organic social interactions differ from planned social events and meetups • Cost of living in a small village vs. big city • The idea of having a 3rd place where people spend time in outside their home and workspace • Why money shouldn't be the main metric you base the success of your life on And much more. Please enjoy, and make sure to follow Nat, Neil, and Andrew on Twitter and share your thoughts on the episode. Links from the Episode: Mentioned in the show: Scribe Media (0:56) Andrew’s "How I Got Fired" article (1:10) FIRE Movement (3:04) King Ranch (7:10) Right Move (9:01) Fountain (1:19:30) Breez (1:19:31) Books Mentioned: The Quest of the Simple Life Letters From a Stoic (2:38) ( Nat’s Book Notes) ( Book Episode) Alchemy (43:38) Shop Class as Soulcraft (1:05:26) People Mentioned: Tucker Max (0:57) Zach Obront (0:58) Morgan Housel (1:36) Seneca (2:42) Tim O’Reilly (34:03) Rory Sutherland (43:34) Chamath Palihapitiya (47:14) Nassim Taleb (1:03:49) Show Topics: 0:10 Our guest today is Andrew Lynch, long-time Made You Think listener from the UK who works as a finance director and writes about health, wealth, and wisdom on his website. 1:25 The book we're discussing today is the Quest of the Simple Life. This memoir by William Dawson is timeless, in that many of the thoughts and ideas expressed by Dawson in the early 1900s still ring true for many people in today's age. 5:12 It's difficult to find the perfect spot to settle in when you want to have everything: a nice piece of land, river views, proximity to what's important yet space away from everything. The homes that check all of your boxes are hard to come across, and often times not available. 9:01 Andrew shares some insights on the countryside areas that the author is moving to in the UK. 10:15 One problem with moving to the countryside that wasn’t mentioned in the book is the social aspect. Moving to the country often means less social interaction and more distance between yourself and your circle of people. 13:41"There is none of that pleasant 'dropping-in' for an evening which is possible in country towns of not immoderate radius. Time-tables have to be consulted, engagement-books scanned, serious preparations made, with the poor result, perhaps, of two hours' hurried intercourse." The author makes the case that it’s actually easier to socialize in a smaller village than a big town because there’s less distance to travel, it's more condensed, and you're more likely to run into friends out and about in a smaller town. 16:56 A "third place" is somewhere (bar, coffee shop, social area) where you can run into friends without having to schedule anything. Unplanned social interactions. Nat talks about creating small town energy in a big town. 20:21 The social schedules that occur in college. It's ideal to have all of your friends living within the same few mile radius as you, and you're sure to have many natural encounters simply by visiting the popular places on campus. Andrew talks about social clubs and activities, such as Crossfit. Having connections within those places encourages you to go there more often knowing you will see people you're familiar with week-to-week. 22:43 Can you create a "third place" organically, and does it defeat the purpose if its not organic? 26:27 Nat, Neil, and Andrew discuss the tie between money and social life, as well as money and family size. When you have more money, having more children is no issue. You can afford more help and childcare, and you can keep up with your lifestyle even when your family size grows. Family size can also be bigger in lower income families because they tend to not frequently go out to eat, travel, and make big purchases. They don't have the luxurious life to keep affording. Where does this leave people in the middle? 30:11 Some people choose to stay closer to family and friends their whole life. Their location now has that built in social network. There's also those who move often, and are tasked with finding new friendships and connections wherever they move to. 32:13"The thing that is least perceived about wealth is that all pleasure in money ends at the point where economy becomes unnecessary. The man who can buy anything he covets, without any consultation with his banker, values nothing that he buys." It’s easy to try and measure the success of your life on the money you have, and while it unlocks different opportunities, it’s not the be-all and end-all of our existence. Andrew makes a connection to a quote from Tim O'Reilly: "Money is like gasoline during a road trip. You don't want to run out of gas on your trip, but you're not doing a tour of gas stations." Money gives you more options and opens more doors, but the point of a road trip isn’t to accumulate as much gas as you can. 34:45 Commuting, work styles, and how things have shift post-Covid. Since this shift, it's tough for many businesses to justify employees having to come in at 8 hours per day. Blending of the office and the 3rd place, and how you can turn an office into a social, yet productive environment 38:58 What is the underlying dissatisfaction that gets solved by moving to the country? Nat points out that there aren’t better food options, there won’t be more people to meet, so what is it solving? Is it the outdoor life and nature of being in the country? "Those rare excursions which I took into the genuine country left me aching for days afterwards with an exquisite pain." Its arguably instinctive to want to be outdoors in nature. 41:17"If I could choose for myself I would even now choose the life of pleasant alternation between town and country, because I am persuaded that the true piquancy and zest of all pleasures lies in contrast." The setup of having both, a little bit in the city and a little bit in the country. When someone finds they can’t have both at once, they take middle ground which is the suburbs. 46:00 “ Men may chafe for years at the conditions of their lot without in any way attempting to amend them." The lesson here is to either make the most of your current situation, or take action on what you want to change. It may feel good to complain because you’re letting your frustration out, but in the end, no progress was made. It’s easy to whine but harder to do something about it. 51:17 We have to be honest with ourselves on the things we say we’ll do. Some things sound great on paper, and we hope to accomplish them, but it doesn’t make us any better or worse of a person whether we accomplish it or not. 55:02 It’s important to remember that everyone has their own preferences. People share different preferences on whether they like to complete projects with others or work alone. We can’t compare ourselves to someone who has a totally different style than us. 56:58 Cost of living in the city vs. countryside. Money seems to "fall off" of you in the city as things are more pricy. Little purchases add up because in a city, there’s so many more little places that you can spend your money throughout the day. 59:16 Neil and Andrew share some outdated sayings and beliefs in the book. 1:02:52 Physical labor around the house is just as good as exercising, and you also get something else out of it. When you renovate your house and take on some of the physical projects yourself, you get to see the outcome of the work you put in. It’s tangible. 1:08:12 Working with big companies vs. small companies. In most instances, it’s easier to see the difference you’re making in a small company. The company culture also differs based on company size. It's all about finding something to do that your heart is also in to. 1:12:21 Andrew and Neil share their biggest takeaways from the book. A few lessons they learned: So much of what we choose is not for ourselves, but of what others will think about it. Make decisions based on what's best for you. Using money as a metric isn’t the best way to think. Don't force yourself to do work that you don’t like. Spend more time outdoors. Be more deliberate. 1:19:00 Thanks for listening! Make sure to grab a copy of The Quest of the Simple Life as well as The Dictator's Handbook if you’d like to read up before our next episode. If you enjoyed this episode, let us know by leaving a review on iTunes and tell a friend. As always, let us know if you have any book recommendations! You can say hi to us on Twitter @TheRealNeilS and @nateliason and share your thoughts on this episode. You can now support Made You Think using the Value-for-Value feature of Podcasting 2.0. This means you can directly tip the co-hosts in BTC with minimal transaction fees. To get started, simply download a podcast app (like Fountain or Breez) that supports Value-for-Value and send some BTC to your in-app wallet. You can then use that to support shows who have opted-in, including Made You Think! We'll be going with this direct support model moving forward, rather than ads. Thanks for listening. See you next time!0 comments0
- 68: Update Episode Part IIMade You Think is back! And if you heard our previous update episode from a few weeks ago, consider this the Update 2.0 on what's to come for the podcast. We are excited to bring you new episodes this year, so stay tuned and follow our show on Spotify so you don't miss an episode. In this episode of Made You Think, Nat and Neil cover a wide range of topics including: The rapidly growing world of Crypto and Web3 Podcasting 2.0 - How you can further support your favorite podcast hosts The Anti-work movement How the pandemic has exposed the fragility in supply chains Corruption in Congress And much more. Make sure to follow Neil and Nat on Twitter and give some suggestions on what books you'd like us to cover. We hope you enjoy this episode! Links from the Episode: Mentioned in the show: Solidity (5:05) Solana (7:36) Avalanche (7:39) Polygon (7:40) MYT #7: A Crash Course in Bitcoin, Ethereum, and Cryptocurrency (7:58) MYT #11: This Podcast Will Save Your Life: Emergency by Neil Strauss (10:26) Wild Planet (11:54) Podcasting 2.0 (12:16) Anchor (12:40) Adam Curry - The Joe Rogan Experience (13:06) Lightning Network (13:21) New CEO of Twitter, Parag Agrawal (15:31) Neil’s Twitter thread of quotes (19:03) Anti-work Reddit (19:22) Over 40% of New Stores Opening in the U.S. Are Dollar Stores (28:05) The Next: Justin Mares (30:28) EatWild (30:30) MYT #48: UBI Q&A. A Conversation with Presidential Candidate Andrew Yang (42:01) Fountain (44:06) Books Mentioned: Emergency by Neil Strauss (10:22) [ Podcast Episode ] Gulag Archipelago (22:11) [Neil's Twitter Thread ] The Fourth Turning (35:54) Dictator’s Handbook (43:02) The Quest of the Simple Life (43:07) People Mentioned: Nader Dabit (4:25) Adam Curry (13:04) Parag Agrawal (15:16) Jack Dorsey (15:25) Nancy Pelosi (39:14) Andrew Yang (42:01) Show Topics 0:00 We’re back again! Neil and Nat catch up and fill you in on what’s to come for the Made You Think podcast. 1:02 Security in cryptocurrency; Nat shares an error he made early on in crypto that ended up costing him. While there is lack of good educational material in this space, one way you can learn crypto programming is reading open source smart contracts. 5:48 The speed at which Web3 is moving makes it near impossible to keep up with every new thing going on. The key is to pick a niche or chain to stay on top of. Since the bull run of 2017, so many uses of cryptocurrency have been uncovered. 10:18 Neil and Nat talk about their favorite survival foods and reflected briefly on their Emergency episode. 12:11 What is Podcasting 2.0? You can now tip podcast creators directly using the lightning network. Think Patreon, but without any centralized authority. 19:22 There’s now a growing group of people who are anti-work. Neil and Nat discuss wealth disparity in the U.S. and how inflation has played a role. 24:55 Being a small business owner has its many challenges. Between the failure to prosecute crimes against small businesses and the hardships faced by store owners over the past two years of Covid, it’s the smaller businesses who are having to close their doors permanently. 29:00 Fragility of supply chains. This affects prices of products at grocery stores as well as the consumers who choose which products to buy, especially those with lower incomes. 33:09 Given the many systemic issues mentioned in the episode, Nat and Neil chat about the competency of our leaders to solve the problems the country is facing. A significant change is needed, but it’s currently unknown what’s it going to take and how long. 38:15 Neil briefly discusses some ideas found in the Dictator’s Handbook. Differences in authoritarian vs. democratically-elected systems. Corruption, lying, and our current system. Is the system too far gone? (Flashback to our Andrew Yang episode!) 42:47 Thank you for listening! Hear what’s next for the Made You Think podcast and make sure to grab your copies of The Quest of the Simple Life and The Dictator's Handbook if you’d like to read up before our next episode. If you enjoyed this episode, let us know by leaving a review on iTunes and tell a friend. As always, let us know if you have any book recommendations! You can say hi to us on Twitter @TheRealNeilS and @nateliason and share your thoughts on this episode. You can now support Made You Think using the Value-for-Value feature of Podcasting 2.0. This means you can directly tip the co-hosts in BTC with minimal transaction fees. To get started, simply download a podcast app (like Fountain) that supports Value-for-Value and send some BTC to your in-app wallet. You can then use that to support shows who have opted-in, including Made You Think! We'll be going with this direct support model moving forward, rather than ads. Thanks for listening. Until next time!0 comments0
- 67: Update Episode January 2022Hey everyone, this is an update episode. Made You Think is coming back this month! The biggest change is that Nat will not be a co-host on most episodes moving forward, due to other time commitments. Instead, we'll have other co-hosts on each episode, some of whom you've heard on the show before. For those that want to follow along, the next two books we're covering are: The Dictator's Handbook: Why Bad Behavior is Almost Always Good Politics by Alastair Smith and Bruce Bueno de Mesquita The Quest of the Simple Life by William James Dawson You can now support Made You Think using the Value-for-Value feature of Podcasting 2.0. This means you can directly tip the co-hosts in BTC with minimal transaction fees. To get started, simply download a podcast app (like Fountain) that supports Value-for-Value and send some BTC to your in-app wallet. You can then use that to support shows who have opted-in, including Made You Think! We'll be going with this direct support model moving forward, rather than ads. Learn more about Podcasting 2.0 here: https://medium.com/@everywheretrip/an-introduction-to-podcasting-2-0-3c4f61ea17f4 If you need help setting up your wallet, DM Neil on Twitter at @therealneils and he'll help you get started. As usual, if you have any book or content recommendations, we'd love to hear them. Excited to be back!0 comments0
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![The Investor Mindset - Name Your Number Show [$]](https://podvine.com/cdn-cgi/image/width=250/https://images.podvine.com/2db66c8e7872d54b2c8acb2d792453cfc2e9af16.jpeg "The Investor Mindset - Name Your Number Show [$]")
