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One of the biggest job search mistake people make is applying everywhere. I better approach, says this week's guest is to cheese companies, not jobs and build relationships with employers before you apply here, to talk about how to choose your target companies and white doing. So will get you a better job is Nick. Corcodilos is the host of ask the Headhunter.com. He's answered more than 50,000 questions for job Seekers and employers of the author of fearless job-hunting. Overcoming the daunting obstacles it. Stop on their job, Hunters dead in their tracks. He joins us today from New Jersey, Nick at, here's what I want to start. Why is it important to choose Target companies? Let's talk about why people go job-hunting to begin with. And I think people are often surprised when I tell him about to say, for the key things that I've learned from clients, candidates readers on my website and people go job hunting for one reason.
All of us is going to go job hunting. Took the wrong job.
How does that happen? Do people know what they want? Why would they take a job that they don't want the employment system in the whole world? Not just America? Nowadays is really one that serves up jobs to us rather than put us in a position where we're deciding what we want and we go after it. So when you served up with a lot of jobs, you're with referred to in the world of psychology, the first choice.
Your five choices, big one. Did you pick the best one? How do you know? It's the best one? You don't know. What's the best ones? You have a forced choice, job was making you 10 million jobs. The First Choice, you're not going after. What you want. What's best for you? You're accepting was being handed to go to the Branson with messenger. So it's like go to a restaurant and you walk into the buffet room, and there's a choice but it's limited. What's on? The table is the better approach, dick to order Alucard. Well, I'm telling you to hire your own Chef. I want to hear more about that.
Okay, so you need a personal check for doing your job search, but seriously, tell me more about what you getting out there. This is the wrong job site. What happens if job hunting is a horrible experience. It's demoralizing. It's frustrating. Someone employer flatters in a job interview because they want to hire you and you're tired of looking. You're frustrated, You got a job offer. You usually grab it. It's a very common thing among people. But then you need to jump again because you probably took the wrong job because you took what was offered around and going out on your own. So the importance of choosing is really critical, and we have brainwashed again. Companies come after us, if they don't really just like, we don't go after them really this intermediary, which is job boards. Applicant tracking systems, Union City newspaper, want one that's in the old days.
We're basically given a selection to pick from and we all really going to believe, this is the way. It's done. HR department strange, this way job or Spanish this way, what we learn as we go through the process. I do a lot of workshops for some of the top business and Beats Executive MBA students, who typically, manages it was 7 to 15 years experience. They come back part time to get an MBA degree. And there was asked me at some point.
When should I go drop on? How should I go? Job-hunting? How do I get past all this rigmarole? Do I tell them is ask yourself? What? Shining Light Company? You love to go to work for it. And then you don't hang out with people do business with that company and hanging out with the right kind of people you'll get mushrooms the right room with the right hiring manager between 40 and 60% of jobs are found in. Field will contact job or a big job was here. The last I looked at a survey about 10% of jobs are still buy job or so if you're spending more than 10% of your job, or you're probably not doing it, right? Because most jobs being still too personal contacts between a candidate some intermediary on the mountain.
So you should look at the companies and that you want to work at what you would you talk to people about doing this. What is the biggest objection to hear from? Can I do this?
They don't do it. Because again, I go back to the brainwashing because job-hunting is a painful process that nobody really wants to do. We want to believe that someone else will do it for us. So we're going to believe that an automated agent.
After we fill out an online form is going to present us with job opportunities that are nice for us. In fact, all is being done is at the computer algorithm is matching keywords against keywords. There's no way to really assess whether someone who can do the job. So, I asked people is if you're going to go into a job interview and you going to talk about what you can do for the company. Are you really prepared to be able to explain three back up? They're very simple. I try to teach people to walk into a hiring manager's office and demonstrate hands that are you going to add Prophet the bottom line if they hire you.
You stop and think about that show is Executive MBA students that I do sessions for what, what does the sound like, do you, what? I'm just exactly what it is. You have a business plan for the job. You for sending the hiring manager.
What's a lot of work when I saw the job you want?
So are we going to do this for all these jobs were applying for the answer is you can't you can't apply to form. You can apply the corner jobs online.
But let's say you bring the Beltway next day sun. Shines down on your road, 100. You apply to contact you. He going to bring you in for an interview in person, nowadays. Whatever the situation is, are you prepared to go into those 10 companies over the next few days? And do that kind of presentation demonstrate. How you going to bring prophet of the bottom line? You can't do that. What are you doing? Well, you choose carefully. This is why it's so important to be careful. If you don't choose carefully, you can't prepare to do that kind of presentation in the inter-service, pause their neck, because many of our listeners aren't going to Business Schools and they're not thinking about adding to offer to the bottom line of a company. What would you say to a listener? Who says that's it. That's how I'm trained and how I think.
This doesn't sound like a good strategy for me. I'll give you an answer to goes back. Twenty years long time ago. I was on a little radio station Philadelphia taking questions about the song called it and he said I'm a blood lab technician non-executive. Not a manager, letting a professional. He's a blood lab technician. Should I went in for an interview and I blew it. I left. I know I can do the job. I didn't do it. Right. What can I do? So we should call the manager of the interview and say if you'll give me 10 minutes. I know I blew my interview. So give me 10 minutes. I'll have to come back in and show you how I would read organize, the steps in the blood analysis process. If I can't show you in 10 minutes, how I can increase your speed by 5 or 10%, and I'll just shake hands with you part company. No harm done. The manager said, 10 minutes. Come on in. The guy said, I did what? You suggested. I sat down on my phone.
About what I could do to make the business more profitable. Profitable means lowering costs, increasing revenues, doing things more efficiently, making customers happy trafficking. And then even numbers, think this guy asked myself, haven't seen the lab. How can I rearrange things to increase efficiency a bit? He got the offer so you don't have to be an executive generating profit for your employer is something that every single job in the world, the required, unfortunately most managers and companies can't look at a particular role or job or position or person in the company and answer the question. How does this person crossword building? What about government and nonprofit jobs? Nick, do we have listeners in those areas to who, say what it's not about profit in those organizations revenue revenue.
If you want for them to operate, you're probably not selling something, but you are producing something with us. A service or product or what-have-you, is a cost associated with it. And there's also the question of what kind of customer satisfaction rating in your client base. If you don't want to show that what you're putting in is producing more articles was coming out with a higher customer satisfaction lower-cost. What are you doing? You're contributing to the bottom line.
So how do you start this process? Because as you say most of us are trained, we assume this is the way you do it. You look at Job boards to be looked at with those things and then you send in an application and you wait to hear back. What do you write? If you're going to put the company first, Nick, whatever your your job search, How do you get started doing that? Let me give you an example, everything. I also offer service worker, one-on-one, consultations, one of my clients Connecticut in Phoenix.
They called me. I was just how do I do if I want to pull this off? How do I pick a company? How do I get a job? So we talked for awhile, make suggestions. And what he did, is he invested his time in developers will contact you flew to Phoenix on his own. I'm after you did some homework. She looked at professional organizations and events going on in the Phoenix area. Is field day to attend one showed up, went to the sessions, always sat in front, went to the breakout sessions. So we sat in front and made a point of walking up to the speaker afterwards. Interesting. Phil University, one of the job. You just said, I'm selling so and I'm interested in working in Phoenix. I wonder if you could give me a little advice and insight.
Into the companies in this field, you think I really the movers and shakers shining lights. Well, one thing led to another two or three CEOs on his first trip, as I went to another event.
By talking to people, I caught fucking shot. Never asked for a job for job leads. Never asked someone to take your resume to the manager, went to HR. Instead you say to someone about your company, how you guys operate? Cuz I'm really interested. I mean, at the job hunting, if I'm trying to understand how your company operates, what I can decide whether I still need to offer, you give me a little advice and insight to be hot if it's kind of a disarming question. And it's easier to say to someone, give me a resume. I'll take that they charge for what someone ask you for advice and then select and asked you to talk shop about the work. We love to talk about. We also love to give advice to people. One thing leads to another and it's easier to get referred to someone who might be able to tell you more.
That's just up in the door.
Ask for advice Talk Shop. I love both of those points because you're right, people love to be asked for advice. Whether it's professional personal and especially for those of us who were further along in our careers. We know a lot, but often people don't ask for advice and even people close to us have topless. So, I want to Paula's right now and take a quick break. And when we come back, Nick, I want to talk about, how did just a practical steps in a pineapple strategy. I am, particularly. I want to start with how to get clear about those companies. So, I stay with us, when we come back. We'll continue our conversation with Nick corcodilos. Who will continue to share his advice about how to choose your target companies.
Once you've chosen the companies, where you want to work talking with people in the inside, is one of the best ways to learn about and land upcoming jobs.
I need these conversations. You'll be asked to share your resume. Are you ready to do? So, before you take your first meeting, find out the date, how your resume compares to others view for free. Atop, resume, go to mix list. Org /, chakras. To me. It just two, business days, professional writer a top resume. Tell you what works in your resume and what you can improve. And that will save you time and energy so he can focus on making the connections that can help me, get a job at one of your targeted. Companies couldn't sleep. Org /, top resume resume has helped more than 400,000 professionals when more interviews and get hard faster and they can help you to go to Mexico. Org, / top resume now, let's get back to the show.
Quebec in the Maxima Studio. I'm talking with Nick corcodilos. He's the host of ask the Headhunter.com where he's answered more than 50,000, questions from jobseekers and employers is also the author of fearless job-hunting overcoming the daunting obstacles that stopped other checked out hunter's dead in their tracks. So Nikki can a great example of somebody who went out to Phoenix and started talking to leaders in the industry where you wanted to work, and obviously, you don't have to fly to Phoenix to use the strategy. You can use it wherever you might live in work out of your city. But how did she do in this example, how does a person get clear about his Target list of companies? What came out of those conversations and down to a shortlist of five or ten? What happened? Exactly? Well, here's what I suggest. I said when you're looking at companies and this is my conclusion from 20 years or more of experience at the head.
Consider four factors number one, look at the people in the company was interested in number to look at the products. Number three. Look at the prospect of the woods. What's in the product pipeline, what's coming down? The pike, will probably look at the finance obvious. You can usually rule companies out pretty quickly over one one or two of these factors so you can dust them off the table. And in fact, as you start drilling down into your industry and researching various companies will drop off, then we'll stay on because you're probably not worth working for for you. Maybe for someone else. Do you have to have some kind of criteria? There's an article that they used on my website on in one of my books now, so the library vacation.
I'll call you you. And that's what it's all about in order to pick a company. Do you want to go after go to your local library?
Down to the stacks. Not the books journals pick up so quickly boating electronic engineering X, whatever strikes your fancy not looking for a job. You just exercising your curiosity, read whatever you feel like than 2 or 3 days doing.
As you go through, you will find what she was fascinated by spoke from reading about how soap is made to know what supplement. Will you ring? My Chimes anymore? It drop it. I give you permission and Heather does not like how they perform. So you start drooling down from the industry, you go down to the companies, which companies seem to be The Shining like these Publications. Are you research? The companies look for articles about the company, business plan the 401.
SEC filings and what have you read the business press, and identify the names of key people in the company spend to get written about who were quoted in? The Press has become now, your target, you can use LinkedIn to effectively look people up and learn about them. I don't recommend trying to contact me through Linkedin because I got thousands of contacts are not going to respond to you, normal some manager, but the more you learn about the match against the company, the manager left. Now, you triangulate you try to find people who do business with the company. Either employees. It might be vendors customers. The lawyers for landlords at the bank of all kinds of people deal with the more people, you talk to, the more, you'll be able to determine whether this company might be right for you and the process, you make a bunch of friends.
But they will tutor you and your conversations on the business of the company. So when you go to an interview, guess what you already on the side, but something to say you're going to offer.
So you talkin shop done asking people for jobs. What's your favorite question to ask and he's conversations. Is there one that you come back to again? And again, as a job candidate or some damn thing as a job candidate trying to find out, I'm talking to leaders in the industry. Having these conversations about shop at about your job search. What what's your number one question for job, candidates asked to help move their candidacy forward.
In a job interview, so I guess, no neck. I meant as you do this research. You're trying to. Yeah. Yeah. I think the question I would ask is if you needed a product or service company makes, would you buy it from them and why?
And what is that answer? Tell you when someone respond with the quality of the company, is an organization in and what is an environment with you could be successful, because they're being successful. When I do a reference check on someone, for example, I'll ask the reference all kinds of questions. The very end. I'll pause and say, thank you very much for your uncle. By the way. I guess. You one more thing. You got a chance to hire Joe again, would you do it?
I'm not looking for a yes or no. I'm looking at how long the pauses before they give me an answer. There was a long pause before they said, yes. I'm concerned.
So it's maybe a little bit of a psychological trick. You're trying to get a sense of what people who do business with a company think of it.
Are you listening for Paws? When you asked that question a product or service? I'm looking for Paws, but I'm more interested in a company is going to give me any level of the tale of information that they know. Usually give me an answer yet. They said, say yes, what do you want to talk to go to work for? Don't know much about it. And I know that don't have much the base of judgment. So I'm going to go on to someone else.
Possibly with a Qi question. I think is that we need to be asking about companies. Want to go to work for whether we're researching them are actually interviewing. In the question is this, if I were sitting talking with a manager, could I demonstrate for you? How I could do the job in a way that you want it done in a way that will that property bottom one? If I can't, you shouldn't want to talk to me. Shake hands or company will be friends. If I can't help you be more successful, your business. You should not talk to me. And if I can't do that for a company that I'm considering applying to I should apply.
You recommended doing research at the library, having conversations with the industry leaders, about to the stars, are in a field and who's doing a, Tristan work, but other preparation, Nick, do you suggest people do to get ready for that conversation. So that you can demonstrate as a candidate to a manager, that you've got the knowledge and understanding of their needs. To make a significant contribution. This is really where the business press comes in. Whether it's physical hard, copy Publications, whether it was online with LinkedIn to use, LinkedIn, to get a job. Use LinkedIn to ferret out information. About a company in organization, must try to understand it. As best you can, I haven't liked to Publications cuz I think your Publications that have survived, for example, Bloomberg businessweek and to be the best ones because people need them and walk them and if Quality Reporting.
Wealth of information you get on various companies and Publications, like this is just incredible. The more you learn better questions. You will ask. What our judgment should be able to make in a very able to formulate your own mine. Oh, you can help the company tackle. The problem. Is it in the end? In the end? You can get a job because you have figured out some extent as best you can. What makes the company hurt. Where's the paint? What problems and challenges? This company facing and at your level job. What can you do?
Lessen. The pain tackle the problems and challenges. Another was, how can you help them again? We come back to this idea of a business plan. You need to take upon yourself. The most managers will not ask for an interview. Hey, how can you help us out? How do you make a business better? Get busy asking the top 10, stupid question. What animal would you be? If you could be any animal, what's your greatest weakness? What you're going to do? What matters is, can you show me how you can do the work?
So in doing this research, you're not doing it before. You had, it was faxed. You can regurgitate during the interview. What you doing is trying to understand enough about the business and you can imagine your sister still on to that company.
Again, and again, you come back to conversations with people and, and, and relationships, and some of these are particularly strong ties. They might be conversation. She had with people to conference after presentation. Why do you think relationships are so powerful in and getting the job you wanted, finding the companies that that you want to work at? It wasn't for a long time ago about shared experiences that people get hired and want to work together or they decide they want to date, maybe to get married.
Because of certain shared experiences. They've had the way the employment system work in America today. Is there. No shirt experiences, 30 words of data about the records about you. If you can create a situation where you can share an experience and someone will become closer from Milwaukee to become friends with. Did you develop something in common? You need to spray that on and triggered make it happen because it's not going to happen naturally by itself in the world, less you step up to the plate. So by asking someone, for example, about your company re company, you tell me what, it's like to work there. An idea. What kind of challenges does replacing that old days when you got back on discussion. It's a shared experience. If you can say to someone my favorite thing in the world looking for a job. Hey, I don't live too far from your company. I mean, from the cafeteria, they're making the restaurant nearby. They won't go through for lunch.
Can I buy you lunch? And maybe just kind of get the cooks to a facility. We can meet a couple people who work, as I get a sentence with the places like again, not everyone's going to say, yes, but if you watched enough of a connection and they bring you in, now, you have an advantage that most people would give anything.
And that Advantage stems from that shared experience that that connection. Doesn't it deck? Exactly because there is no real person that connection. You can do this by email. You can do it by slow. People want to know the personal connection again, I'll go back to the is buried between 40 and 67% that percentage of jobs or even feel because I have a personal connection and yet people will spend 73% of the time zapping out resumes for applying to jobs online just because they're there.
Personal connections will make this happen and you have to make a personal connection happen to yourself.
You mentioned it to started the conversation that we're trained to to send in applications to look at Job, boards and public postings. And that's why so many of us do this. But are there other reasons that stop people from sending that email or making a phone call to someone to see if they might buy them? Lunch inside someone who works at a company that they're just dying to learn more about it or you brats work at what's on. My readers will tell me is that your idea of all sounds great, but I'm an introvert. I don't know how to network, and I asked him, know, what is networking mean to you and the environment one person couldn't very well. Well S3, go ask somebody to do something for you doesn't really know you and not sticky.
Why would you do it? Well, because up with networking is I'm supposed to do. If it feels icky, don't do it. Ask yourself. What would you feel comfortable? Introduce yourself? Someone, when I get to know someone?
This is that a terrific conversation. I'm sorry, we've run out of time. But tell us Nick, what's next for you? Well, I ask the Headhunter is actually being redesigned. When it said I'm trying to make it easier for readers to ask questions that I can answer online. And then we do this. Goes out to a new letter. By the way the past almost 20 years of publishing newsletter s you wasn't 805 is coming out. I think real life questions. Real live reading. Real life problem. Like a slim a newsletter don't we all go file on the website and discuss the topic and the problem and often my readers offer better if I stay the night.
So improving the website is number one. Number to. The newsletter is free and charge, anyone who's interested in more information about this planet for the new. Do you get a free week on Tuesday morning? There's also a way. Yes. There is a PDF books that I publicly books. You mentioned more than Fearless job hunting, but I like to do is offer your audience, a discount on, on these these products if they'd like 25% or the website athleta.com, go to the ordering section and use the discount code. Dream Hunter, d r, e, a m, h u n t e, r us anything. You buy through the whole summer. I think summer ends on June on September 22nd. So I'll offer that for that long. That's terrific is very generous of you. I know people can learn again more about you your books and other services and ask a question by going to ask the Headhunter. Com.
Given all the great advice for sure today. What's the one thing you want to listen to remember about choosing a Target company?
I want you to remember is that you need to prepare yourself to the point where you can walk into a manager's office and show that manager in one way or another, how you were going to do the work in a way that will bring more success and profit company's bottom line. Otherwise, you shouldn't be in there asking for an interview for a job.
Professionally written resume. Can get you more interviews to land the job. You want faster.
I look today for your free resume review at top resume. Go to max list.org., Top resume. Do you like the show? Me every Wednesday will send you links to our guests, as well as the show transcript, but I'm actually out of work podcast. Again. That's Max list.org podcast. Next week. I guess, expert will be Mark mohammadpur. He's a strategic Communications, executive certified personal trainer, and a health coach, Mark also hosts the podcast, Chasing the Sun in every job interview. You need to connect with your interviewers. It's hard to make this chemistry happen in person. How do you do it on a zoom? Call? Mark, and I will talk about how to build rapport in a virtual interview.
I hope you'll join us until next time. Thanks for letting us help. You find your dream job.